Salary cap shenanigans

[Hugh Jarse]

Why isn't Gilbert treated as if he was a foreign import with the Rebels?

He has left NSW for Mexico after all.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

What sort of penalty can we realistically expect to see from the ARU towards NSWRU.

The ARU doesn't have the balls to risk upsetting anymore NSW fans so they are unlikely to enforce a competition point docking rule or reducing the salary cap,i expect its going to be a financial penalty and given the recent resignations, they will probably say a staff 'clean-out' was also part of the punishment..

Its pretty shit that fans get punished for the failures at a management level..

ARU takeover of Tahs.
Judging by sentiment on GGR this would not upset that many Tah fans.
Suggestion is that given the amounts involved ($25k each cheque) the CEO should have known if, in fact, he did not by virtue of the parlous financial position of tahs and the fact that cheques of this magnitude ought to have been going past him.



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[waratahjesus]

No it doesn't, they have a salary cap which is different to the other organisations due to the higher number of foreign players, its still a salary cap nonetheless.

As for salary cap rorting, well you are clutching at staws to claim the Rebels are the same as the Tahs , Rebels operate within the rules, the Tahs allegedly haven't been.

Not clutching. I knw they haven't broken the rules, but they really don't have the rules applied the same way is what I'm saying.

If the combined total of cheating is 50 thousand as suggested, in the scheme of things, what advantage has it caused?

They have signed agreements so punishment is completely justified, but has the cheating actually caused any advantage?

 

[Gnostic]

ARU takeover of Tahs.
Judging by sentiment on GGR this would not upset that many Tah fans.
Suggestion is that given the amounts involved ($25k each cheque) the CEO should have known if, in fact, he did not by virtue of the parlous financial position of tahs and the fact that cheques of this magnitude ought to have been going past him.



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It would upset me as I think JON is just as bad in his current incarnation, ordering secret reviews that are meaningless because he had already re-appointed the coach and himself with nice payrises.

Intervention by the ARU will be a long way down the list of worries if another organisation with a three letter acronym gets interested and investigates.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

May not be as simple as an ARU take over of Waratahs Inc due to whatever commercial arrangements exist between the NSWRU, who own the Waratah Licence and IP, and Waratahs Inc who have exclusive rights to the NSWRU Waratah licence and IP until 2014.

It may be that ARU have to take over NSWRU (here we go again), or revoke the NSWRU Super Rugby licence. It could get commercially messy, when ARU, NSWRU and Waratahs Inc do not have all that much money to throw around to bail out whosoever needs bailing out.

Any Commercial types actually understand the nature of the various commercial, contractual and licencing arrangements between ARU and NSWRU, NSWRU and Warratahs Inc?

 

[Braveheart81]

You can guarantee that if the Waratahs have breached the salary cap then it would be enough for NSWRU to say they brought the franchise into disrepute and the licence could be revoked.

Given that Jason Allen has to sign a declaration with the ARU each season that they haven't breached the salary cap, doing so would almost certainly be grounds for dismissal.

 

[waratahjesus]

Did Jason Allen sign the ARU agreement? Or did the chairman?

 

[Braveheart81]

All the press I have read suggests the CEO of each franchise signs it.

 

[waratahjesus]

Fair enough. I think Allen will be safe though. It has been stated several times by him and others in Tahs inc that his job is the business side and the others run the rugby side. If he signed it or not, my guess is the already departed will be taking the blame.

 

[Richo]

Player contracts are where the rugby side and the business side meet. Any CEO should be on top of them.

 

[waratahjesus]

Player contracts are where the rugby side and the business side meet. Any CEO should be on top of them.

A CEO with a non rugby background brought into an organisation to increase sponsorship and corporate membership would likely not have anymore knowledge of individual contracts than the bottom line. Not saying he isn't guilty. Just that I reckon he will escape completely unpunished based on what's been said about his position.

I remember a few years ago at parramatta in the league they got accused of salary cap rorting when it was revealed that a players wife was being payed a six figure salary as a "leg waxer". The CEO Dennis Fitzgerald in response said he felt ripped off as they had payed the figure in good faith and perhaps should have done more research into beauty treatments.

Perhaps Mr.Allen doesn't know how much ground hire costs.

 

[TOCC]

Not clutching. I knw they haven't broken the rules, but they really don't have the rules applied the same way is what I'm saying.

If the combined total of cheating is 50 thousand as suggested, in the scheme of things, what advantage has it caused?

They have signed agreements so punishment is completely justified, but has the cheating actually caused any advantage?

Rebels have done nothing wrong(as far as we know), they have contracted players within the salary cap afforded to them, so that subject is irrelevant.

Waratahs on the other hand, have reportedly paid some of their players to either join or remain at the province outside of the allowed salary cap. Whether they went poorly this year or not is apart from the point..

 

[Slim 293]

A CEO with a non rugby background brought into an organisation to increase sponsorship and corporate membership would likely not have anymore knowledge of individual contracts than the bottom line. Not saying he isn't guilty. Just that I reckon he will escape completely unpunished based on what's been said about his position.

I remember a few years ago at parramatta in the league they got accused of salary cap rorting when it was revealed that a players wife was being payed a six figure salary as a "leg waxer". The CEO Dennis Fitzgerald in response said he felt ripped off as they had payed the figure in good faith and perhaps should have done more research into beauty treatments.

Perhaps Mr.Allen doesn't know how much ground hire costs.

You bought that excuse from Parra?

 

[Slim 293]

Anyways, I think the punishment is pretty simple here:

Reduce their salary cap for x number of years.

Unfortunately the ARU won't have the balls to do that to their precious.......

 

[TOCC]

I dont think reducing the salary cap would be the smartest choice anyway..

Those responsible deserve to be punished(ie the management), but reducing the salary cap punishes the fans which i don't agree with.

 

[Moses]

What sort of penalty can we realistically expect to see from the ARU towards NSWRU.

The ARU doesn't have the balls to risk upsetting anymore NSW fans so they are unlikely to enforce a competition point docking rule or reducing the salary cap,i expect its going to be a financial penalty and given the recent resignations, they will probably say a staff 'clean-out' was also part of the punishment..

Its pretty shit that fans get punished for the failures at a management level..

I don't know that they could enforce a competition point docking - the salary cap is unique to Australia so if a team were to breach this stupid arbitrary cap that restricts our competitiveness then they wouldn't be breaking any SANZAR rules in doing so.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

A CEO with a non rugby background brought into an organisation to increase sponsorship and corporate membership would likely not have anymore knowledge of individual contracts than the bottom line. Not saying he isn't guilty. Just that I reckon he will escape completely unpunished based on what's been said about his position.

I remember a few years ago at parramatta in the league they got accused of salary cap rorting when it was revealed that a players wife was being payed a six figure salary as a "leg waxer". The CEO Dennis Fitzgerald in response said he felt ripped off as they had payed the figure in good faith and perhaps should have done more research into beauty treatments.

Perhaps Mr.Allen doesn't know how much ground hire costs.

the thinking is, apparently, that given the tahs less than sensational financial position it should not have been possible to write cheques for $25k without the CEO knowing. So he either knew or ought to have known so the argument runs.....unless someone higher up was writing them


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[Hugh Jarse]

Or were they five invoices for $5k each totalling $25k.

The financial authorisations and delegations for a $5k payment in some organisations are at levels well below CEO level. Perhaps Team Manager Level. Oh wait he has gone. Convenient.

There is plenty of speculation here, and some big assumptions that it is the Tahs who are in breach. We will look a little silly if is isn't the Tahs.

 

[waratahjesus]

I dont think reducing the salary cap would be the smartest choice anyway..

Those responsible deserve to be punished(ie the management), but reducing the salary cap punishes the fans which i don't agree with.

Reducing the salary cap would also punish players. Some would have to take pay cuts or maybe one less contract. It isn't the players fault the team payed more than they were supposed to.

 

[No4918]

Not sure how this works but surely the player/s in question were aware something was a bit dodgy. If it can be proven they did a case could be made for there punishment.