School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Quick Hands]

And Joeys beat them by 58 points the week before.

But New fans should not despair: no doubt they will have a fine First XV in two years' time.
.

Any true Newington fan would/should despair if they did turn up with an imported all-star 1st XV in 2 years time. They have fantastic facilities out there and we're also told how good their coaches are.

According to their website:

In recent years Newington has undergone somewhat of a Rugby renaissance, with the last few seasons witnessing a succession of strong teams across all age groups. This has been the result of many years of planning and hard work by both staff and our boys.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Any true Newington fan would/should despair if they did turn up with an imported all-star 1st XV in 2 years time. They have fantastic facilities out there and we're also told how good their coaches are.

According to their website:

In recent years Newington has undergone somewhat of a Rugby renaissance, with the last few seasons witnessing a succession of strong teams across all age groups. This has been the result of many years of planning and hard work by both staff and our boys.

Well in 2 years there will be several boys from their current u15s who were cunningly snuck in at year 7 playing in 1s I suggest - so don't underestimate the planning just yet.

 

[Quick Hands]

Well in 2 years there will be several boys from their current u15s who were cunningly snuck in at year 7 playing in 1s I suggest - so don't underestimate the planning just yet.

Hopefully their planning involves developing their students/players over a six year period in accordance with the letter and spirit of the AAGPS code of conduct, rather than on planning how to stack teams at the top end contrary at the very least to the spririt of the code.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Hopefully their planning involves developing their students/players over a six year period in accordance with the letter and spirit of the AAGPS code of conduct, rather than on planning how to stack teams at the top end contrary at the very least to the spririt of the code.

Said players were standouts in primary school - their selection was anything but random

 

[Hugh Jarse]

That puts my hypotherical Moot about which of two equally deserving kids would get the scholarship offer to bed for one School then.

I guess my hypothetical skinny geeky kid who doesn't like sport has missed the particular Scholarship gravy train.

 

[Quick Hands]

Said players were standouts in primary school - their selection was anything but random

Which school/s are going well in 15As this year? Disregarding Scots because of Glengarry of course. The only results that I know are Shore have lost every match in the 15As (including to the Glengarry depleted Scots).

I also recall from last year that in last years 13s, Scots defeated Newington by big scores in 13 As - Cs. (14s this year)

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Which school/s are going well in 15As this year? Disregarding Scots because of Glengarry of course. The only results that I know are Shore have lost every match in the 15As (including to the Glengarry depleted Scots).

Shore have huge injury issues because of the Southport Carnival at the end of the holidays, so I am told.

 

[strokeside]

I think this will be the developing tactic, identifying kids as they leave yr6,

 

[Hugh Jarse]

strokeside, Many academic scholarships are awarded in Year 6, as are most of the genuine musical scholarships. Time for the athletic ones to follow suit.

A little leprechaun tells me that this has been happening for quite some time at some schools, although not in great numbers so these have not been detected by the scholarship radar.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Well that little leprechaun's brother told me that a CAS school had a kid on an athletic scholarship in 6th class a few years ago

 

[strokeside]

Yeh, I came across it with some friends, several years ago, but that boy was literally "head & shoulders" above his year, he is now in senior rugby, and not so dominate, that is the risk in one so young. I'm guessing that most followers of this thread would have less problem with boys starting in yr7??

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Yeh, I came across it with some friends, several years ago, but that boy was literally "head & shoulders" above his year, he is now in senior rugby, and not so dominate, that is the risk in one so young. I'm guessing that most followers of this thread would have less problem with boys starting in yr7??

No excuse for me.
Those kids could provide the back bone for a rugby team in some other comp thereby spreading the word beyond the north shore (theoretically speaking given the ARU's disinterest)

 

[Lindommer]

Whomever this/these school(s) is/are, it/they really must try harder. Look to that famous rugby nursery at Hunters Hill: young Kurtley Beale was offered a scholarship as a stringy, skinny 11 year old kid in 2001. THAT'S how to do it!

 

[Quick Hands]

Yeh, I came across it with some friends, several years ago, but that boy was literally "head & shoulders" above his year, he is now in senior rugby, and not so dominate, that is the risk in one so young. I'm guessing that most followers of this thread would have less problem with boys starting in yr7??

I suppose it depends on the motivation of the school. It's certainly much more of a gamble compared to bringing in the ready made product in Year 9/10. Schools should have a balanced enrolment process, but inducements based on a purely sporting basis are against the code of conduct. At least it can be said that the school is taking responsibility for the boy's development.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I suppose it depends on the motivation of the school. It's certainly much more of a gamble compared to bringing in the ready made product in Year 9/10. Schools should have a balanced enrolment process, but inducements based on a purely sporting basis are against the code of conduct. At least it can be said that the school is taking responsibility for the boy's development.

Well thats why I held off responding to Lindommer (who I suspect was being a little tongue in cheek): I guess you cant blame the school for everything but I am left wondering what life skills SJC imparted to KB (Kurtley Beale) in return for the use of those prodigious talents.
The celebrity cult that surrounded him from year 10 may well explain some of his transgressions.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The issue with scholarships is somewhat two fold.

Primarily there is the moral and ethical issue that in AAGPS (at least) there is a specific agreed code signed up to by the Heads of School that expressly forbids this practice. When Schools openly and knowingly breach this agreement, it sends a poor message about ethics and morals to the impressionable teenagers in their charge or sets them up for a career in certain occupations where a good healthy set of double standards is mandatory.

Secondly there is the Arms Race that is unsustainable for a niche sport. As all the "best" talent gets drawn to fewer and fewer schools, the base of the rugby pyramid shrinks as Village Club teams fold, and CHS and CCC schools find that they do not have enough players signing up to be able to make up a viable team now that <insert Scholarship recipient> has gone.

The AAGPS Schools and better performing CAS and ISA Schools actively discourage their boys (both on full fees and subsidised fees) from loyally backing up on Sunday for their mates at their Junior Village Club. There are very very few who manage to stay loyal to their Village Club team from Under 6 to Under 17 inside the AAGPS system, with most of them giving up at Under 15 or Under 16 level.


Rugby is at saturation point in the AAGPS system with very little room for genuine growth. There are opportunities for growth (re-growth) in the CHS and CCC associations and the Village Clubs provided there are some talented rugby players there to build a team around.

Locking all the talented rugby players away from their Village Clubs in Year 7 through what could be construed as employment contract (AAGPS sporting scholarships) does very little to keep the rugby flame alive in the CHS and Village Clubs.


That went on for a bit.
Summary:
Year 7 Rugby scholarships are just as bad as the Year 10/11 Paratroopers.
They are against the AAGPS Code and they contribute to the shrinking of the rugby player base in the wider community.

EDIT: Having ranted above, it is a problem with the schools and their relentless prosecution of a rugby arms race that is the problem. Well done to any parents and boys who are deemed "good enough" to be offered one. Just don't skite about it. It is a little unbecoming.

 

[Quick Hands]

EDIT: Having ranted above, it is a problem with the schools and their relentless prosecution of a rugby arms race that is the problem. Well done to any parents and boys who are deemed "good enough" to be offered one. Just don't skite about it. It is a little unbecoming.

What I find particularly off is when the school or one of its employees initiates the process. As well as being against the code of conduct, I just find it appalling. (I know it occurs at village club level as well, but this is a schools thread)

If a person fancies themselves as a top level coach and they are in a place which has among the best facilities in the country, wouldn't that person take great pride in presiding over a programme which takes all comers at 13s and with hard work and turns some of them into elite footballers? How does one achieve self satisfaction by recruiting/importing ready made stars and beating teams which don't?

Am I missing something, or am I just inhabiting a different world?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

What I find particularly off is when the school or one of its employees initiates the process. As well as being against the code of conduct, I just find it appalling. (I know it occurs at village club level as well, but this is a schools thread)

If a person fancies themselves as a top level coach and they are in a place which has among the best facilities in the country, wouldn't that person take great pride in presiding over a programme which takes all comers at 13s and with hard work and turns some of them into elite footballers? How does one achieve self satisfaction by recruiting/importing ready made stars and beating teams which don't?

Am I missing something, or am I just inhabiting a different world?

I think you cannot overlook the possibility that coaching a successful school 1st XV is a potential stepping stone.
In this country we have had s15 coaches and test coaches who have been school teachers and who have trodden the path from school 1st XV.

 

[I like to watch]

What I find particularly off is when the school or one of its employees initiates the process. As well as being against the code of conduct, I just find it appalling. (I know it occurs at village club level as well, but this is a schools thread)

If a person fancies themselves as a top level coach and they are in a place which has among the best facilities in the country, wouldn't that person take great pride in presiding over a programme which takes all comers at 13s and with hard work and turns some of them into elite footballers? How does one achieve self satisfaction by recruiting/importing ready made stars and beating teams which don't?

Am I missing something, or am I just inhabiting a different world?

Because cheats convince themselves it's OK.
You don't think Ben Johnston wasn't proud when he collected his Gold?( for a couple of days anyway)
Any one who coaches a side with a large amount of imports is in denial,if they think they were a major factor in any success.
Interestingly,someone pointed out to me just the other day,one highly rated import still has the same technical flaw he had when he joined the School 4 years ago.
It just shows that if you don't know what you are doing,all the skill sessions,field sessions and video sessions won't be that productive.

 

[CTPE]

There are very very few who manage to stay loyal to their Village Club team from Under 6 to Under 17 inside the AAGPS system, with most of them giving up at Under 15 or Under 16 level..

"Giving up" is very harsh HJ - for most of them backing up on a Sunday after playing in a very physical u16 age group for their school on a Saturday is a big ask and in a lot of cases bloody dangerous. I know first hand how difficult it was for u16a's players to back up on Sundays and the many bruises, bumps and injuries that were carried into that second weekend game. For many of these boys their March-September weekends had been totally dominated by rugby for up to 9 years and this in itself can be a turn off for young talent.
Another thing worth noting is that for a lot of boys, especially those at GPS schools, their introduction to rugby begins at school and not at village club level and they subsequently choose to play for a village club as well on weekends. There is often a close affiliation between some of these schools and certain village clubs with boys "traditionally" playing for them - eg King's and Beecroft or Dural - with the school thus sustaining the village clubs.