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Scotland v Australia - Sunday 26 November 1:30am AEDT

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dru

Tim Horan (67)
So let me ask this question: is the uniquely poor state of our super rugby teams not a mitigating factor in assessing Cheika as coach of the Wallabies?

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Symptoms of the same disease. His bench has been poor which talks to the depth available from Soup. Or would do if he hadn’t intentionally reduced the player list he drafted from. Key examples being Fardy and Higgers.

Soup will start impacting things big time as the impact of “shrink to greatness” kicks in. Cheika’s key issues though are his constantly shooting himself in the foot. It is very largely self made.
 

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
The obvious problem with that setup is that there is only one kicker in the back three. I'd probably ditch Speight and stick DHP straight back in as soon as he's fit (underrated loss imo).

Yeah, sure. But I stated that that's what I'd do with the present squad. DHP unfortunately isn't in the present squad. Outside the squad, I'd seriously consider bringing Duncan Paia'aua in as the No 12 in the June tests in the expectation he will fill the spot at the RWC. I'd also be including Matt Philip in the forwards to replace Rob Simmons and to supplement Coleman, Arnold and Tui. I'd also have Valetini and Holloway in there next year to get experience leading to the RWC. in place of mcCalman and Hanigan. And Naisarani when eligible to replace Timani if he doesn't show some consistency early on. And of course, Uelese and Faiingaa must come in to replace Moore and gain experience at the top level. I would be dropping Phipps altogether and going with any of Powell, Ruru or Louwrens to back up and perhaps replace Genia by the time the RWC rolls around. Some of these selections should have been made for this EOYT. It has been a huge loss of opportunity to blood the next tranche of players who should be taking over in 2019.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Higgers? Really? I doubt that too many would agree that he should have been in the squad.

Fardy is yesterday's man by now. Let us move on, eh?
 

KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
It has been a huge loss of opportunity to blood the next tranche of players who should be taking over in 2019.
Of the many criticisms of Cheika that are valid this isn't one of them. He's blooded like 29 new players since 2015. Granted he's missed a few of your favourites but that's just his opinion versus yours, it's certainly not a missed opportunity. That said I hope the last 2 tours leave a legacy to rest some key players and give some of the up and comers a bit more game time. I wonder if there's some pressure to meet some head office KPI's though? E.g finishing the season ranked higher than last year, or whatever, that might cloud some selection rationale.

EDIT: he's actually brought all of the players you mention into the squad at some point except naisarani who's not eligible and louwrens who is injured, and valentini who's still a kid but I'm sure is on the radar
 
T

TOCC

Guest
So let me ask this question: is the uniquely poor state of our super rugby teams not a mitigating factor in assessing Cheika as coach of the Wallabies?

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Of course it’s a factor, but its not an excuse.. and i certainly don't believe the wallabies played to their potential on Saturday either, I don’t believe you can just blame the Super Rugby teams for the poor discipline, or blame the Super Rugby teams for the poor game plan used/executed on Saturday given that they have demonstrated the ability to play to a high standard at times this year. I also don’t believe the poor defensive alignment can be blamed on Super Rugby teams nor the shuffling of players around the backline to roles they are unfamiliar defensively or defensively un-suited.

Like I said, credit where credit is due for the performance against the All Blacks in the 2nd and 3rd test. But if you’re going to tell me Cheika deserve praise then you also need to recognise he assumes responsibility for some of those poor performances this year as well.

This discussion has gone down a path I don’t particularly enjoy, i didn’t want to get in a back and forth over Cheika, my original point was quite clear, that the Wallabies have conceded record scores against a number of test rugby teams in the past 18months.. Cheika is only one factor in that.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
There were at least some bright spots on the tour. Our set piece, even missing a few key folk, went toe to toe with the Welsh and English. Koroibete is looking like one of the best specialist wingers in world rugby.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
There were at least some bright spots on the tour. Our set piece, even missing a few key folk, went toe to toe with the Welsh and English. Koroibete is looking like one of the best specialist wingers in world rugby.

LMFAO. Welsh not even close to 6N best set pieces. Against the Poms they were dusted in every facet of play except the Lineout.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
I also note the argument about blooding so many players. Yet Cheika uses this as an excuse for the losses and the mode of loss with e quote about a "young team" conveniently ignoring the fact that even taking the nostalgia Cap for Moore out of the equation over half the side had more than 30 caps and what 5 more than 60+. Two relative newbies in the run on side in Enever and Koriobete, with Thor and Faulkner on the bench. Yeah real inexperience.

Lets not also lose sight of how players have been selected for a season despite being obviously underdone for whatever reason and then discarded. That is not building depth.

Lets not even discuss the fitness flogging they got before the mid year tests because they were "unfit".

There is no other way to categorise this entire season as anything but an abject failure. On top of last year if there was any credible options Cheika and co would be out on their arses.
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
As mentioned by Armchair General before, we've been papering over the cracks since the 2015 World Cup and today's match was probably a good example of that. Of course Cheika takes some of the blame but equally as problematic has been the fact we just haven't had the cattle to build a team. We haven't had an 8 and our whole backrow over the past two years has been way out of kilter, we've been constantly chopping and changing in the centres between playing a second ball player and a big carrier and our back three constantly rotate between defending in the line in place of the flyhalf, defending on the wing, and defending at the back.

Reviewing this year's play there are only a very few number of players I would have locked in as starters next year: Folau, Koroibete, Coleman, Taf (presuming he is available) and Kepu.

Some players like Hooper and Beale are of course good enough to be there, world class even, but I don't think we can go on trying to fit them in our team if there are other players who play the position better. Pocock starting as 7 with Naiasarani at 8 and Dempsey/Valentini (and I have high hopes for this kid, could be our Jerome Kaino) at 6 is a better combination for me than trying to cram Pocock and Hooper both into the one backrow despite the fact Hooper is perhaps a better player than the options at 6 and 8.

When I look at today's game and all the Northern Henispherr games I just don't think our forward pack is impactful enough. We can get away with it playing faster, wider rugby in the Southern Hemisphere but as soon as we hit those corn fed boys who play tight up north we struggle. For me though it's not all doom and gloom if players keep developing how they have been we could well see Tui, Coleman, Valentini, Pocock and Naisarani all starting in Gold in the next two years which is a huge pack. Next year's Super Rugby will be vital in terms of player development, we can't afford any of the young prospects we've uncovered this year to fade.
 

Kenny Powers

Ron Walden (29)
The most disappointing part of the test match is watching Simmons give up on a chase and Kerevi's complete lack of urgency in getting back into the defensive line.

To me it's not just Kerevi's poor defensive judgement and skills, this goes to his attitude to defense, which means he will not improve. Chekia needs to rule a line thru him and Simmons.

I suspect it is the standard Australian story - progressed thru various junior rep teams as he could just run over the top and had good attacking skills, no attention to defensive skills and when they get to the Wallabies they have to be hidden in defense. They just grow up with the attitude that defense and tackling is not in their job description.

Kerevi is just the latest in a conga line of indulged schoolboy rock stars who's defensive short comings are overlooked and not addressed - Beale, Foley, Quade, Aiden Toua.
 

tragic

John Solomon (38)
The wallabies are the new France of world rugby.
On their day they can beat anyone in the world.
But their day comes rarely and the rest of the time they are utter shite.
I used to like watching France play as they were so unpredictable - they'd beat the all blacks one day then get trounced by a minnow the next.
It's not as much fun when it's your own national side :(
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
The wallabies are the new France of world rugby.
On their day they can beat anyone in the world.
But their day comes rarely and the rest of the time they are utter shite.
I used to like watching France play as they were so unpredictable - they'd beat the all blacks one day then get trounced by a minnow the next.
It's not as much fun when it's your own national side :(

Cheer up. Once we fix the domestic issues things will get better. Think of it this way. We can still beat the All Blacks whilst hitting one of the lowest points for rugby in Australia. Not so bad eh.
 

ForceFan

Chilla Wilson (44)
WALLABIES RUCK INVOLVEMENTS AGAINST SCOTLAND

McMahon - 33 Total - 28 Attack/5 Defence (80 mins)
Enever - 29T - 29A/0D (53 mins)
Moore - 29T - 23A/6D (59 mins)
Sio - 26T - 22A/4D (71 mins)
McCalman - 22T - 19A/3D (53 mins)
Simmons: 22T - 22A/0D (67 mins)
Hooper - 22T - 18A/4D (80 mins)
Kepu - 18T - 17A/1D (39 mins)

Best Backs: Foley - 11T - 11A/0D; Beale - 10T - 10A/0D

Kepu's Red Card came at a cost:
Wallabies stood off 76% of 'D" Rucks. Little pressure on Scotland's ball carriers.
Wallabies Tackling Efficiency - 76% - 110 of 145 - missed 35 tackles.

Scotland Tackling Efficiency - 90% - 182 of 202 - missed 20 tackles.
 

KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
There is no other way to categorise this entire season as anything but an abject failure. On top of last year if there was any credible options Cheika and co would be out on their arses.

Well it wasn't a resounding success but 'abject failure' is a bit over the top too. It started with a low pass, and the 6 games from Dunedin through to Brisbane deservedly promoted us from 5th to 3rd on the rankings. The tour was an abject failure, I'll give you that, but it wasn't representative of the whole season.
 

BarneySF

Bob Loudon (25)
Here's the new world rankings:

1 New Zealand 93.99
2 England 90.87
3 (↑4) Ireland 86.39
4 (↓3) Australia 85.49 (-1.80)
5 South Africa 84.90
6 Scotland 84.11 (+1.80)
7 Wales 80.98
8 France 78.77

The 6 nations is going to be interesting. From the November tests I reckon both Scotland and Ireland have been more impressive than England. England run the risk of catching Eddie-itis (playing one dimensionally). We could well be pushed down to 5th with all of England, Ireland and Scotland above us, and Ireland could be pushing England for #2.

5 is sounding about right
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
Well it wasn't a resounding success but 'abject failure' is a bit over the top too. It started with a low pass, and the 6 games from Dunedin through to Brisbane deservedly promoted us from 5th to 3rd on the rankings. The tour was an abject failure, I'll give you that, but it wasn't representative of the whole season.

The whole season where we ran into the same attitude issues, leaky defense, and terrible discipline over and over again?

Look at our record from the last EOYT through this one. It’s not good.

One point from 0-3 to Scotland, 1-2 in reality.

Loss to ireland

2 losses to England

Couldn’t put away the worst Springboks team in history in either of our matches

We are very lucky Argentina has shot themselves in the foot recently, can’t put together a full-strength team, and have crap coaching at the Jaguars.

The only high points I can think of are Dunedin and then finally beating a second string ABs at home. Which was followed up by going straight back to bad habits and effectively undoing any good that was done in those games.

We still can’t even manage a referee and our coach is still doing everything in his power to make that as hard to do as possible until the absolute last fucking game of the season.

Our mercurial playmakers can’t find and maintain form for more than a handful of games at best.

If anything was not representative of our whole season it was the games against the ABs in Dunedin and Brisbane.
 
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