Should the ARU cut their losses and abolish the National Academies?

[fatprop]

A relatively easy way to start thing off would be every time 2 Australian super teams played each other, their academy or U20 squad would play the curtain raiser. Something similar happened at a couple of games this year, but I don't think it was a regular fixture or competition.

Maybe it should be?

A 5 team, 2 round competition, played at the same grounds immediately before the same super teams play. The grounds and travel arrangements are already set. It shouldn't take that much organising and it gives the players in those academies valuable game time at a higher level.

When these games aren't on - they play club rugby. 1st grade in Sydney Club rugby is an infinitely higher standard that the NRL Toyota Cup.

I would prefer to see not just U20s, but a real "As"

 

[TOCC]

In terms of the 7s set up. Going from the results our team(s) have recorded over the past two seasons apart from the Tokyo event, and London the year before, the general level of performance has been rather disappointing. This suggests there's something serious flawed in the system.

ugh, yes because the National Academy was only formed this year, and secondly olympic funding works in 4 year cycles.. Funding is invested now to produce returns for 2016...
The AOC only fund sports in the 4 years prior, 7's rugby in Australia started to receive funding this year and will start to receive the full funding in 2013.

 

[Quick Hands]

I would prefer to see not just U20s, but a real "As"

So would I, otherwise players over 20 are punted from the squad, which is one of the problems the NRL are experiencing with their Toyota Cup.

 

[qwerty51]

I'd also like to point out that this year was the first year of the academy, we're not going to see results from it for another 2-3 years.

 

[nomis]

There were whispers of something being done at u20 but so far nothing.

Yeah, seems that way. How much of what happens next year, in terms of new initiatives, is dependant on any potential change to the governance structure? I'm just wondering if it's all on hold for this.

A 5 team, 2 round competition, played at the same grounds immediately before the same super teams play. The grounds and travel arrangements are already set. It shouldn't take that much organising and it gives the players in those academies valuable game time at a higher level.

It just makes sense. Any game time u20 players can get in a more competitive environment is going to better prepare them for the JRWC. Young players have something to aspire to in the immediate future. Selectors can better judge a players ability to step-up. Spectators get more by going to a Super Rugby game and quite simply, it's exciting to see the up and coming on a bigger stage and anticipating who will make the team. Oh, and it gives the Super Rugby teams a better environment to develop the school stars they want to snatch up, rather than thrusting them into Super Rugby too early.

 

[nomis]

I would prefer to see not just U20s, but a real "As"

Yep. That would also tick a lot of boxes.

 

[nomis]

I'd also like to point out that this year was the first year of the academy, we're not going to see results from it for another 2-3 years.

Fair point. Is there any way to combine some of these ideas some how?

 

[D-Box]

Cannot the national academy be trimmed down to a number of training camps with the players then spending the rest of the time with the Super Rugby teams and playing curtain raisers as suggested above. The National Academy could be give over all control of S&C for the players targeting peaking for the World Under 20's. Makes sense to me and would be a bit of best of both worlds. It may also increase the talent pool playing the the WA and VIC premier leagues.

 

[BellyTwoBlues]

If the National academy was coached by someone with the runs on the Board like Bob (Dwyer) or Knuckles Connolly then it would have some credibility and the franchises would look at the young blokes in it. But as long as it's coached by blokes who wouldn't even get a Shute Shield Head Coach job and are appointed by their ARU mates then sadly, it will never have credibility and integrity.

In my opinion, the National Academy Director (or Head Coach or whatever you want to call it) should be the bloke who is most likely going to be the next Wallaby Coach. Get him in the system, see how he goes developing the talent not to mention selecting it. Have them tour overseas and depending on the development and results, determine if he is in fact the number 2.

 

[Quick Hands]

Yeah, seems that way. How much of what happens next year, in terms of new initiatives, is dependant on any potential change to the governance structure? I'm just wondering if it's all on hold for this.




It just makes sense. Any game time u20 players can get in a more competitive environment is going to better prepare them for the JRWC. Young players have something to aspire to in the immediate future. Selectors can better judge a players ability to step-up. Spectators get more by going to a Super Rugby game and quite simply, it's exciting to see the up and coming on a bigger stage and anticipating who will make the team. Oh, and it gives the Super Rugby teams a better environment to develop the school stars they want to snatch up, rather than thrusting them into Super Rugby too early.

The only question being cost and as it essentially makes the National Acaemy superfluous, that would be where the money should come from. (and there would still be money left over)

 

[Jets]

A relatively easy way to start thing off would be every time 2 Australian super teams played each other, their academy or U20 squad would play the curtain raiser. Something similar happened at a couple of games this year, but I don't think it was a regular fixture or competition.

Maybe it should be?

A 5 team, 2 round competition, played at the same grounds immediately before the same super teams play. The grounds and travel arrangements are already set. It shouldn't take that much organising and it gives the players in those academies valuable game time at a higher level.

When these games aren't on - they play club rugby. 1st grade in Sydney Club rugby is an infinitely higher standard that the NRL Toyota Cup.

The issue with this is that the JRWC would be held during this competition. It would be better to hold the comp over consecutive weekends at the start of the comp and then the squad can be selected with plenty of time to hold training camps for the JRWC. Also appoint a head coach who can develop some semblance of a gameplan and who can bring a group of players together.
I think there is a lot of good that could come from an U20 if it was planned correctly and if the ARU were to come out and explain their decision making.
As others have mentioned an "A" program would be better as it would provide more depth for the Super teams.

 

[TOCC]

If the National academy was coached by someone with the runs on the Board like Bob (Dwyer) or Knuckles Connolly then it would have some credibility and the franchises would look at the young blokes in it. But as long as it's coached by blokes who wouldn't even get a Shute Shield Head Coach job and are appointed by their ARU mates then sadly, it will never have credibility and integrity.

The Brisbane coach, Paul Carozza is very well respected in that field, I'm not sure there are any coaches in Australia with better credentials at the development/academy role.

 

[Jets]

If the National academy was coached by someone with the runs on the Board like Bob (Dwyer) or Knuckles Connolly then it would have some credibility and the franchises would look at the young blokes in it. But as long as it's coached by blokes who wouldn't even get a Shute Shield Head Coach job and are appointed by their ARU mates then sadly, it will never have credibility and integrity.

In my opinion, the National Academy Director (or Head Coach or whatever you want to call it) should be the bloke who is most likely going to be the next Wallaby Coach. Get him in the system, see how he goes developing the talent not to mention selecting it. Have them tour overseas and depending on the development and results, determine if he is in fact the number 2.

I'm not sure who is the coach of the Academy in Sydney but in Brisbane Paul Corozza is the coach and does quite a good job from my understanding. He was also head coach of the QLD Academy since Phil Mooney took over the Reds gig so has the runs on the board in terms of developing players.

 

[Quick Hands]

The issue with this is that the JRWC would be held during this competition. It would be better to hold the comp over consecutive weekends at the start of the comp and then the squad can be selected with plenty of time to hold training camps for the JRWC. Also appoint a head coach who can develop some semblance of a gameplan and who can bring a group of players together.
I think there is a lot of good that could come from an U20 if it was planned correctly and if the ARU were to come out and explain their decision making.
As others have mentioned an "A" program would be better as it would provide more depth for the Super teams.

The JRWC 2013 runs from 5- 23 June, so there will have been plenty of opportunity for them to be involved in Super Rugby matches or A game curtain raisers for months. It's essential that these guys are part of the super rugby set up and not off on their own attending training camps. U/20 players could and should be part of the A programme - they'd probably comprise most of it. Just like the Wallabies, they are selected on the basis of form during the super season by playing as much high level rugby as possible. If they get injured, they get injured. We need to ensure that we have the depth to cover injuries and that is done by having as many people playing at a high level as we possibly can.

As soon as an U/20 competition runs separately to super teams, the costs will balloon. All ground management, support staff, medical staff etc are all in place for the super match.

 

[Jets]

I'm not against the idea. I just think it needs to be run earlier in the year and not spread out over the entire Super season. An "A" program would work best for the franchises and, as you say, would be a good comp for the development of U20 players.

I'm all for players playing rugby. You can train all you want but there is nothing like playing to separate the men from the boys. Anyone involved in club rugby will tell you about guys who look fantastic all preseason and end up playing lower grades because they just aren't rugby players. I think this is the issue that we all have with these academies, that they don't focus on playing rugby, but in reality it has become a lot better in recent years. I remember a time when guys missed games to rest them for academy training.

 

[twenty seven]

That already occurs regardless of the $5,000 offered by the ARU to take part in the Academy setups and contrary to many, the budget for those Toyota Cup teams isn't significant by any means. Many of those who take up that option do so due to greater opportunities to possible move on to the NRL. However, the majority end up either in either the NSW or Queensland Cup. Some even further down in the Bundaberg Cup.

It's not always about money. Rugby has to and in the case of some Sydney clubs need to look (and have) to create similar work and educational opportunities to make staying in Rugby just as attractive as going to League.

Are you telling me that a player cannot commit to training either before or after work/school? You're kidding right. I know it can be done. I played for Randwick but lived on the outer South West fringe of Sydney. I hit the gym in the morning before school, go to school, and go to training after school. When I left school and was working while attending Uni I still managed to do it. Why? Because I wanted at the time. These guys can do it. If they ask them to train during the day then the issue is with those running the academies not the players.

The old model of the ARS certainly wasn't pathway in its original form. That's doesn't mean it couldn't be upgraded to one. If you have the Super Rugby squad members and up and coming talent fill these spots to compete as an extra development structure it would be quite strong. You wouldn't necessarily include the likes of Tas, Darwin or SA initially. Perhaps never. Same for the country Unions unless they are able to prove a case. It would prove Sydney and Brisbane with potentially two squads and one for the other cities with franchises (and their set ups) present.

As for the sevens thing, I didn't even mention the Super Rugby franchises. I said clubs. It wouldn't necessarily be all that expensive as many of the tournaments already exist. Teams wouldn't even need to travel that far. Keep them state base. Choose a possible vs probables and play them off. That way players will have to compete for their spots constantly on a yearly basis, meaning they will always be looking to improve their games.

Where you living at home at the time?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Where you living at home at the time?

Well, considering I was still in HS when I first started. Yes. However, I left home after HS with a few mates. If you are going to bring up the whole responsibilities of living away from home I used to cook all my meals on a Sunday as well as do my obligations. Same for while I was at home. My diet was different from my family so I had to take care of that.

It's about settling on a routine. It's very doable if you want it enough.

 

[BellyTwoBlues]

I'm not sure who is the coach of the Academy in Sydney but in Brisbane Paul Corozza is the coach and does quite a good job from my understanding. He was also head coach of the QLD Academy since Phil Mooney took over the Reds gig so has the runs on the board in terms of developing players.

It's Sean Hedger in Sydney.......................anybody know him?

 

[BellyTwoBlues]

The Brisbane coach, Paul Carozza is very well respected in that field, I'm not sure there are any coaches in Australia with better credentials at the development/academy role.

I'm the first to admit I know little of the Brisbane Premier Rugby Comp. But I know a fair bit about the Sydney one.

I'm referring only to the Sydney Academy.

 

[Quick Hands]

I'm the first to admit I know little of the Brisbane Premier Rugby Comp. But I know a fair bit about the Sydney one.

I'm referring only to the Sydney Academy.

Could I ask why there is a National Academy and a separate Qld Academy in Brisbane run by the Reds and a National Academy and a separate NSW Academy in Sydney run by the Waratahs?

Have I got it wrong or is this really the case?

If this is the case, it strikes me as being absurd in the extreme and a waste of valuable resources.