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Shute Shield 2014 Format

Discussion in 'Shute Shield' started by the coach, Jul 16, 2013.

  1. the coach Dick Tooth (41)

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    I know it's only July but since the Shute Shield clubs and the NSWRU (and SRU?) have been discussing the format of the SS for next year for "the last 18 months" maybe we should canvas ideas from those who care most ie us!

    My suggestion is 12 teams, full home and away, 5 team playoffs.

    Playoffs week 1:
    (1) 4 v 5 [loser eliminated]
    (2) 2 v 3

    Playoffs week 2:
    (3) winner of (1) v loser of 2 [loser eliminated]
    (4) 1 v winner of (2) [winner to GF]

    Playoffs week 3:
    (5) winner of (3) v loser of (4) [winner to GF, loser eliminated]

    Playoffs week 4:
    GF

    So teams finishing 1 and 2 have a second bite at the cherry if beaten and the minor premier gets a week off.


    7 teams who miss out to play in a knockout plate competition in parallel to the playoffs.

    Season to last 26 weeks (no breaks) compared to 24 weeks this year (which included 1 week with no games and 1 split round)



    GO FOR IT !!!
  2. Done that Ron Walden (29)

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    My understanding is that all clubs have a guarantee for the 2014 competition , unless the constitution is changed.
  3. the coach Dick Tooth (41)

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    Hmmmmm...doesn't seem to match NF-J's comment in Rugby News a couple of weeks ago when he said we could end up with a 10 team comp in "the very near future".
  4. Done that Ron Walden (29)

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    Clubs need to vote on a change in constitution.Some clubs would be reluctant to do this because of the potential for being dropped.
  5. young gun Chris McKivat (8)

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    I agree, plus I was talking to the President of one of the successful clubs (ie: no risk of demotion), a few weeks ago and he said that there was going to be change, then quickly changed the subject.
  6. Late Starter Allen Oxlade (6)

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    Coach I like your format. Particularly I prefer the 5 team finals format where the top 3 teams get a second chance, as opposed to the old 6 team format where all teams had 1 chance only.

    The regular season format needs to revert back to all teams home and away. There are 12 teams currently but if the SRU needs to shorten the season then I have no problem reducing the number to 10.

    Having any kind of split competition in the regular season does not create an even playing field. In last year's format it was of greater advantage to be in 7th or 8th place at the half way stage than in 5th or 6th. This was demonstrated with Easts in 6th place at half way having to play all teams above them in the second half of the year; they ended up missing out on the finals (I am aware they were also docked 4 points)

    This year the top 3 clubs in the club championship are Uni, Eastwood and Manly. Uni play the other two only once. Eastwood could rightly argue that they miss the chance to take Club Championship points away from Uni as they do not play them at home this year.
    the coach likes this.
  7. the coach Dick Tooth (41)

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    Your points about the uneven nature of the comp are very true. There are some clubs this year who obviously benefit from playing Penrith and Gordon twice whereas some clubs only play them once. Definitely an uneven playing field!

    I've asked this question on the forum before but, assuming Penrith would go in a ten team comp, which other team would be dumped ???
  8. Gibbo Ron Walden (29)

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    The never ending question. I think there are about 6 or 7 people in Sydney who know the answer to that.
    3 on the review board. The Sydney Rugby board and Pulver.
  9. Hugie Ted Fahey (11)

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    To further complicate things what do people think about the idea that the finals series not be a SS finals but a combined Qld Premieship SS finals?
    • For first grade only??
    • With or without super 15 players??
  10. Done that Ron Walden (29)

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    Interesting that you have no problems with reducing the competition by 2 teams.
    Who would you nominate to be dumped from the competition ?
    Some people would agree with you re a reduced number of clubs , as long as it's not the club that they support.
  11. the coach Dick Tooth (41)

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    I would prefer amalgamations rather than clubs being dumped, but I guess its the same problem ie "as long as my club doesn't have to amalgamate"!
    Hugh Jarse and Dave Beat like this.
  12. Pete King Phil Hardcastle (33)

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    Might ruffle a few feathers but I think Penrith has to be relegated to subbies. A lot of guys who use to head down to Gordon are preferring Knox old boys and other subbies clubs, They could possibly be the other team to go.
  13. Rugby Central Charlie Fox (21)

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    Two tiers of 8 team comps starting later in the year. Means you have:
    1. fewer mismatches
    2. a promotion relegation system worth fighting for
    3. Inclusion of stronger Subbies Clubs with ambition
    4. Preseason matches not competiting with cricket
    5. Space for a proper 7's Compitition
    6. Use of more Super Rugby players for more Club matches
    7. 2 new and separate "products" to sell to broadcasters
    8. 2 tiers could be either North/South or East/West or Premier and Reserve. Whichever way, put a combined side from each one against eachother at the end of the season and you'll see the best of the best in Sydney smash it out in an awesome game of Rugby.
    Oh well, that's the end of that. I used "awesome" and "rugby" in one sentence. Surefire way to be poo-pooed by SRU
  14. Late Starter Allen Oxlade (6)

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    Penrith has to go. It's no good saying we have to have a presence in the West if nothing is actually done to support that presence. Either more resources are pumped into Penrith or they head to subbies. I'd say having a weak team out there is doing more harm than good. If I was a talented young player in the west would I bother playing Rugby Union for the local team to get my arse handed to me each week? Or would I play League and win a few games.

    I hate to say it because Gordon are one of the traditional clubs in the competition but it they can only manage to field a single team of Colts then they're the other team. For a club that boasts about having the most number of registered junior players in NSW, something must be seriously wrong if this doesn't translate into more than 1 team of colts.
  15. Bruce Ross Ken Catchpole (46)

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    Just a quick comment on the proposed 10-Club format. Excluding Penrith means permanently abandoning a huge part of the Sydney Basin and its population. One would be entitled to expect that those putting forward such an irreversible change regularly spend their Saturday afternoons watching matches in the competition they intend to apply the scalpel - or perhaps more correctly machete - to.
    .
  16. Gibbo Ron Walden (29)

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    Thanks for the feedback re: Gordon's colts [USER=8747]Late Starter[/USER] , the club has undertaken major steps in the right direction with regard to ensuring we engage with our Village clubs and that there is viable rewarding path into Colts and Senior football. I think most would agree with [USER=10140]Pete King[/USER] taht Gordon has plenty of Competition from Sub-districts teams. Almost too many to count, Hornsby, Brothers, Knox, Barker, Lindfield, Roseville, Lane Cove, Epping and Forest (to a degree), St Ives, Chatswood, Iggies old boys to name a few. So yeah - we have to differentiate and add value where others cant.

    The Club's goals for the year have been clear.
    1. Solid financial situation
    2. Retention and recruitment of players
    3. Engaging with the Junior clubs.

    With a few major wins like our sponsorship/scholarship agreement with UTS , Tony Dempsey coaching 1st Grade Colts next year and the cooperation with (and success of) our Junior Teams we are certainly on the right track for solid Colts numbers in 2014. With the brains in charge at the moment along with the governance they have put in place things are definitely on the up.
    Pete King likes this.
  17. the coach Dick Tooth (41)

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    Bruce, I can't speak for others but my original post (see top) advocated keeping 12 teams. However, the "powers that be" have dropped enough hints that they support reducing the SS to 10 teams so the question of which teams would go is a valid one to consider here.

    Again as I said above, I'd prefer amalgamations (eg Penrith + Parramatta) to at least keep a presence out west. As someone who annually takes the trip to Nepean Rugby Park I can tell you they have been lucky to attract 100 people other than the players to the home games I've attended. I shudder to think what scores your club will run up against them on Saturday.

    In the days when "Fab" Fenton was involved with Penrith there was some light at the end of the tunnel but I see no progress being made based on team performances for the last few years. And the other clubs (mine included) regularly mine whatever talent they manage to develop.

    I can't really see any benefit in keeping them in the SS or any downside in dropping them.
    Dave Beat likes this.
  18. Bruce Ross Ken Catchpole (46)

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    tc, my reference to those putting forward the 10-Club proposal was specifically directed at "the powers that be".
    The huge "downside in dropping" Penrith that I see is that it is irreversible. Once out they wouldn't ever get back in. In 1996 when my own club was targetted it was recognised that if we were omitted we would never be re-admitted. So what hope for poor Penrith?

    The reality is that there are enough rugby enthusiasts out at Penrith that they continue to turn out each year honouring most of their commitments. The fact that teams from our own clubs play some one-sided games is the price we pay - temporarily I would hope - to maintain a presence in a major population growth area.

    In this town there are a number of professional coaches who can't get a gig. Has the SRU, NSWRU or ARU ever given thought to offering one of them a decent salary package to take on the role of Rugby Director/First Grade Coach at Penrith?
    .
    Done that likes this.
  19. the coach Dick Tooth (41)

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    My concern is that for years people have been suggesting Waratah signings should be drafted to Penrith, other clubs should be prevented from poaching their players, money should be given to them, etc etc etc.

    I reckon it's reached the point where the NSWRU / SRU either has to shit or get off the pot. If they are not going to do anything, ever, as seems the case, then there's no point in keeping Penrith in the SS.
    My friends who follow other sports (esp NRL) treat the SS as a joke because of the scores they see racked up against Penrith.
  20. Cattledog Sydney Middleton (9)

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    Top 10 Things that the ARU could do to actually support rugby in Penrith.

    1. ARU / SJRU waives team insurance & rego fees for all Penrith affiliated junior clubs & teams allowing money to be spent on development & significantly lowering the cost of playing.
    2. NSWJRU waives PDJRU June Long weekend affiliation fees thus allowing money to be spent on district development.
    3. ARU help fund a GM with a whole district mandate.
    4. ARU / NSWRU uses its sponsors to provide an incentives program for independent schools to take up Saturday rugby from western Sydney. Technology grants etc. or "An IPad for every player!"
    5. ARU / NSWRU allocate incoming Waratahs professionals to Penrith Club. Not locals but QLD or other non Sydney players. Aka Sorel Pretorius??
    6. ARU / NSW set up a HP academy in Sydney with involvement in programmes linked to playing for a club determined by the ARU / NSWRU.
    7. Any SS club signing a Penrith player for a new season without the written permission of Penrith club to pay a $5K transfer fee.
    8. NSW & SRU agree that Penrith Grade & colts games to be held at same ground each week to develop rugby culture & positive club atmosphere.
    9. ARU / NSWRU to employ 2 people to run the new "Sydney rugby foundation" whose mandate will be to raise funds for the development of rugby in Western Sydney.
    10. ARU / NSWRU to engage a recruitment company charged with the task of working with SS clubs in Western Sydney to find employment for players.

    There you go 10 ideas that will never happen!
    Hugh Jarse and nomis like this.

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