South African S14 Teams are going?

[Scotty]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25065339-5002381,00.html

The upper echelons of Australia and New Zealand rugby are buzzing with the rumour that South Africa is negotiating to take its five teams - the Bulls, Stormers, Sharks, Cheetahs and Lions -out of the southern hemisphere competition once the SANZAR broadcast agreement expires next year and put them into the Magners League.

It goes without saying that any proposal not involving South Africa is going to take a massive dollar hit from the broadcasters. But, ironically, Australia might actually do better out of such a deal than it does from an "all systems go" Super 15. South Africa gobbles up around $8 million of SANZAR's annual $11 million transport and accommodation budget.

What's more, although the three SANZAR partners share an equal one-third of costs, Australia is allocated only a quarter of the income. South Africa, which also diverts 95 per cent of SuperSport's television money flow to the sport directly into its own coffers, takes the lion's share of the SANZAR spoils. And rumour has it that it wants more, a 45 per cent cut of the pie.

So there might very well be an element of "good riddance" if South Africa does decide to redirect its Lions, Cheetahs, Bulls, Sharks and Stormers elsewhere.

I would be relatively happy to see the South African teams do their own thing - although if they pull out of S14, I don't think NZ and Oz should allow them to continue in a 3N tournament - can't have their cake and eat it! As I've said many times before I think a trans tasman comp is the best thing in the long run for rugby in this country - more prime time exposure and more 'meaningful' games (ie ones the general public can relate to - local derbies and kiwi match ups). I'm sure there will be a short term hit, but I think there is a bigger picture here.

 

[formeropenside]

Throw in the PI and Japan, and travel time stays acceptable, and you can still have a S12/14/15 whatever, without bloating up Oz rugby with additional made-up sides.

 

[Scarfman]

Well, this could be anything ranging from bullshit to fact. I believe that one of the reasons that the S14 is going well is that it now has tradition. My preference is to keep going with the current or slightly modified format.

But a Trans-Tasman comp would be very interesting. The options are limitless, from a minimal 4 x AUS + Top Level ANZ Cup teams, to something more complicated involving conferences, relegation, etc.

And fos, I know what you mean, but I wouldn't mind seeing a Melbourne side. The thing I couldn't stand is a 2nd NSW side (based in Western Sydney or Central Coast or whatever).

 

[Scotty]

I'd love to see a 5th Oz side with 6 or 7 NZ sides and 2 Japanese ones. Unfortunately I don't think there is enough money in the PI's to make a side based there viable.

Scarfy - I'm not sure I agree that the S14 is going that well? Surely if it was truly going well each individual franchise would be financially self sustaining and not require big player payment top ups from the national body? I will only think of it as going well when we see a longer season (20+ weeks) and crowd averages of 30k+ for the Oz teams.

 

[Scotty]

And are we ever going to get to that place with the current structure - or do we need more games against other oz teams and kiwi teams to do so - we already know these clashes are more watched in Oz than the ones vs SA.

 

[fatprop]

Do the South African officials understand their weather over summer.

Munster playing in Durban in January (mid 30s and humid) would be "challenging", as would the Sharks leaving a SA summer to play a game in the snow & mud of January in Ireland.

 

[Moses]

It'd take some sacrifice from the Magners League teams to start playing away in South Africa.

Currently they're worst case travel to a game would be 4 hours. They'd probably stay overnight then fly back in the morning. If they start going to South Africa for 2/3 games a season the only practical way to do it is with a tour.

It's a minimum of three flights (Heathrow, Joberg, Durban/Cape Town) to play in 35 C heat against a bunch of boneheads (they've had Corne Krige flying the flag up north for a few years now).

Don't other comps overlap with the Magners league? Bit hard to play Heineken Cup when you're on tour!

 

[Biffo]

Can someone please explain just why South Africa's S14 teams are disadvantaged by having more travel than New Zealand and Australia's teams? My quick figuring suggests that the South African teams have the least travel of the three.

 

[disco]

I don't want the Saffas to leave the Sanzar set up but they do pull this shit everytime we have to negotiate a new deal with news limited.

Fatprop is right about weather conditions & timing of the Magners league I think it's just the Saffas wanting more coin from the new deal & hoping the Anzacs will fold to thier threats.

Travel hasn't really been a problem for the Saffa sides of late anyway, the Sharks, Storners & Bulls have all had success down under.

 

[Ash]

Can someone please explain just why South Africa's S14 teams are disadvantaged by having more travel than New Zealand and Australia's teams? My quick figuring suggests that the South African teams have the least travel of the three.

The longer tours are definitely a disadvantage, especially near the end of the tour.

 

[Biffo]

Can someone please explain just why South Africa's S14 teams are disadvantaged by having more travel than New Zealand and Australia's teams? My quick figuring suggests that the South African teams have the least travel of the three.

The longer tours are definitely a disadvantage, especially near the end of the tour.

Why? Fit, young, professional athletes with the very best of medical, exercise and psychological support should not have a problem with a "tour" of 3-4 weeks.

 

[Scarfman]

Well, jet lag is a bitch.

But to take the Waratahs and the Sharks as an example, their seasons look like this:

Waratahs
NZL
AUS
AUS
AUS
AUS
AUS
NZL
AUS
AUS
AUS
Bye
RSA
RSA
RSA

Sharks
RSA
RSA
NZL
NZL
AUS
AUS
RSA
RSA
RSA
RSA
Bye
RSA
RSA
RSA

So, for the Waratahs it's 2 quick trips to New Zealand and 3-week tour to South Africa.
For the Sharks it's a 4-week tour to Australasia.

You're right, I reckon, they're doing pretty well. It's their own fault if they don't get a home semi-final.

 

[PaarlBok]

Ag this is only a storm in a tea cup. We survive on our own for years and still can if needed. I mean watch this weekends crowds in SA. Average over 30,000 and Newlands 47,000 for a local derby. Our lot will go watch our provinces play and myself will surprise if we dont look at all our options. Be it S14 or NH compo, you have to go where the money is. Thats the trend for any business.

 

[disco]

Ag this is only a storm in a tea cup. We survive on our own for years and still can if needed.

Is that what SA fans & players want, we all know that Rugby in SA can stand alone but wouldn't you much rather stay in the super 14.

I hope that the Sharks do go on and win this season so we can put this travel factor rubbish to bed because that would see two SA sides win in 3 years.

I personally would be gutted to see the Saffas leave sanzar.

 

[Blue]

This really looks like a wind up and its not even clear who would have started the rumor.

SA stands to gain nothing from leaving Sanzar and joining a second rate European competition during the SA summer. By the same token, Aus and NZ will only lose.

Scotty pelase explain to me how things would be financially more viable if you took the SA TV rights funding out of the current equation?

Aus rugby makes no money, NZ rugby has had to rationalise, and SA rugby scrapes by. The sum of the whole is bigger than the parts, which is why Sanzar exists. More teams in Aus and NZ is not going to get the Au and NZ networks to splash more cash.

One last thing. I don't think the sponsors in all three countries would like a split either.

Everyone wants a better product but SA threatening to run away and Aus and NZ rumbling about closing shop are equally pathetic but not at all surprising. These are rugby administrators after all.

 

[PaarlBok]

We have this on TSF. Maybe I should try and paint the Saffer picture here. I mean we started a compo like the Varsity Cup last year. Unbelievable success story. We run this one and the Vodacom Cup during the S14. We also have three CC compos running together, big men, U21s & U19s. This bring you to the contracted players in SA. Each province will contract their U21s + senoirs and draw their U19s from their academies. Even schoolboy rugby derbies these days on national TV and with a big sponsor. Big rugby schools like Affies will travel from Pretoria to Cape Town to Pieter Maritzburg to Bloemfontein each weekend.

This myself put the blame on O'Neill trying to push his extended compo of S14 rugby on us. No ways our lot will want to go in a CC and the top two go through to the business end and playing some Japan club or Pasific Island in a semi. We as supporters want to see the Tahs, BumBoys, Saders on Newlands and wont support Honda club or whatever. We have a CC plus, plus, plus.

Then we can rather join the Celtic lot and play against Munster and the likes.

 

[Cutter]

The Magners League plays from Sept/Oct through to April/May. Isnt that the hottest part of the year in SA? Wouldnt that mean that your Currie Cup plus plus plus would need to restructure their seasons as well so that the top tier of professional players werent playing year round?

Alternatively, would the Magners league teams adjust their season to suit the SA teams thereby being in a mismatch with the Heinekin Cup season, Six Nations etc so that, again, they play all year round?

There is bugger all chance of SA playing in the Magners league. There is more chance of SA playing with themselves. Whilst I would be disappointed by that, it wouldnt be the end of the world. I think South African rugby has evolved since it began playing in the S14 and in the Tri-nations thanks to the influence of ANZAC rugby. I also think that the ANZAC teams have learnt from the South Africans.

I'm pretty sure we have had these threads before too. Usually around contract time. I'm not surprised John O'Neill is getting blamed though. Didnt he light the bushfires too? And wasnt he dressed in a shark suit attacking swimmers at Bondi?

 

[Biffo]

You could hang non-neutral referees on him, too ... and the obsession with kicking in all professional leagues ... and the player drain to France ... and, whatever you might like.

GO JOHN!!

 

[Thomond78]

Being fair, while JO'N is to blame for most ills in the world, the shark attacks on Bondi are due to Fullermorg going to the HK Sevens. It's just that, while the sharks are relocating from the Cape to the Pearl River to devour his ginger Taff arse, they have to keep their hand [fin?] in en route.

Your patience in this regard is appreciated, and we hope to have matters returning to normal shortly.

Yours Sincerely,

The Have Fullermorg Eaten By A Shark Foundation.

 

[PaarlBok]

Isnt he the one that start this changing or expanding the S14 compo? Cant honestly see us leaving while it is on the current format.