Holloway injured - not back until next year. Houston in Europe short term still, I think.
Springboks v Wallabies - Sunday 2 October 1am AEST - Loftus Versfeld
- Thread starter Braveheart81
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Holloway injured - not back until next year. Houston in Europe short term still, I think.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
Better get up to date on some of the players RB123. Yes, Holloway is injured and out for the remainder of the year. Houston is back in England playing for Bath. And I don't know anyone else who would suggest Timani is a safe selection at 8.
So, yes in the absence of McMahon, I'd definitely play it unsafe and try Timani with Hooper to go there if Timani doesn't work out or is injured. Maybe Jordy Reid on the bench to cover 7 if Hooper moves. Alternatively, Dempsey on the bench to cover 6 if Fardy moves to 8.
So, yes in the absence of McMahon, I'd definitely play it unsafe and try Timani with Hooper to go there if Timani doesn't work out or is injured. Maybe Jordy Reid on the bench to cover 7 if Hooper moves. Alternatively, Dempsey on the bench to cover 6 if Fardy moves to 8.
Rugbybloke123
Herbert Moran (7)
BR Houston is completely eligible as he is on loan from the reds to bath rugby which under the laws/rules means he can play if selected by the wallabies, but yes wasn't sure about holloway.you raise some good points about hooper, reid etc particularly with the form reid was in this year at super rugby
Mr Pilfer
Bob Loudon (25)
McCalman is still a good option. I believe he is still underrated as he goes a bit unnoticed over in Perth. He has come back strong through the NRC and Cheika seems to like him and he still has a good few years left. A backrow of fardy, hooper, McCalman has a good balance with timani on the bench
Ulrich
Nev Cottrell (35)
Bring in Skelton and move Mumm to 8.
Vary play from very flat to deep, have your 13 (can't remember his name but he always got over the advantage line) run in from deep once or twice a game to keep opposition defense on their toes.
Get a 15 who can kick and rest Folau.
Don't see much wrong with your back line. Centres are fine. You could do with a Tuqiri or such on the wing. Someone who is a great finisher with immense pace, because you break the line often enough.
Vary play from very flat to deep, have your 13 (can't remember his name but he always got over the advantage line) run in from deep once or twice a game to keep opposition defense on their toes.
Get a 15 who can kick and rest Folau.
Don't see much wrong with your back line. Centres are fine. You could do with a Tuqiri or such on the wing. Someone who is a great finisher with immense pace, because you break the line often enough.
A mutterer
Chilla Wilson (44)
the 3 areas of concern remain the same we haven't addressed over the past 8 games:
1. standing off at the breakdown - we are giving away so much football because some stupid tactical structure dictates this (see point 3), strauss got what 2 or 3 easy reach over and "don't mind if i do" pilfers. every game we are seeing easy pilfers destroying our chances and momentum (see point 2).
2. someone else (cyclo?) mentioned lack of support for ball runners. it's near criminal that strong runners do not have options either hip on a bust. this is compounded by running too upright and being held up in the tackle. in a harsher frame of mind i'd yell at the tv that certain players look like they don't want to hurt/get hurt in contact.
3. whatever attacking structures are in place are clearly not working, and this is down to chieka and larkham. we look dumb when the initial structure doesnt get set or work. the reversion to type shows that larkham isnt doing his job well enough and an end of year review is looking increasingly likely.
1. standing off at the breakdown - we are giving away so much football because some stupid tactical structure dictates this (see point 3), strauss got what 2 or 3 easy reach over and "don't mind if i do" pilfers. every game we are seeing easy pilfers destroying our chances and momentum (see point 2).
2. someone else (cyclo?) mentioned lack of support for ball runners. it's near criminal that strong runners do not have options either hip on a bust. this is compounded by running too upright and being held up in the tackle. in a harsher frame of mind i'd yell at the tv that certain players look like they don't want to hurt/get hurt in contact.
3. whatever attacking structures are in place are clearly not working, and this is down to chieka and larkham. we look dumb when the initial structure doesnt get set or work. the reversion to type shows that larkham isnt doing his job well enough and an end of year review is looking increasingly likely.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
Upon reflection, not only the last test but the whole season, the critical thing for the wallabies going forward is that when larkham makes his choice (which is meant to be soon I think) he elects to stick with the brumbies. Some gentle persuasion might help.
The cattle we have are fine, we are never going to have a 100% consensus on here about the make up of the side, but overall we have the players we need.
The cattle we have are fine, we are never going to have a 100% consensus on here about the make up of the side, but overall we have the players we need.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
It wasn't a lack of support runners actually.
2 examples stuck out in my mind in the game. The first one was Simmons took the ball near the try line. He had Coleman and Mumm as support runners. As soon as Simmons got the ball he was tackled, and as he had no momentum he was driven back. Both Coleman and Mumm overshot and ran straight past him rather than latching, or driving on the tacklers.
Coleman attempted to double back but unfortunately it was too late.
Another was Hooper having Moore and another in support late in the game. He made a half break but was mowed down. The support dropped off completely due to him making an extra 5 meters and were not there in time to secure possession.
The support is there but it's seemingly not smart enough, and not aware of the ball runner enough to make the right decisions and put themselves in the right position. I'd wager there are examples of this for every single player during the game which makes me think it's a coaching issue.
2 examples stuck out in my mind in the game. The first one was Simmons took the ball near the try line. He had Coleman and Mumm as support runners. As soon as Simmons got the ball he was tackled, and as he had no momentum he was driven back. Both Coleman and Mumm overshot and ran straight past him rather than latching, or driving on the tacklers.
Coleman attempted to double back but unfortunately it was too late.
Another was Hooper having Moore and another in support late in the game. He made a half break but was mowed down. The support dropped off completely due to him making an extra 5 meters and were not there in time to secure possession.
The support is there but it's seemingly not smart enough, and not aware of the ball runner enough to make the right decisions and put themselves in the right position. I'd wager there are examples of this for every single player during the game which makes me think it's a coaching issue.
Joe Blow
Peter Sullivan (51)
Simmons and Mumm are often cautious going into contact. They do not seek it out. In this regard Timani will help a lot, like McMahon. They love contact and take the ball flat chat into the teeth of the defense. After a while some defenders may become hesitant. Of course we want our ball carriers going for holes but either way they should be at full tilt.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
As expected a mediocre game from the Wallabies.
I din;t know whether Izzy's head is up his arse and needs to be brought back to earth by dropping him. Or he needs a rest - whatever but he really shouldn't be in the team next week.
Chek's selections are not good. The definition of insanity resonates in my head. The only bloke who played much better this week over the previous few was Scotty Sio. Still only made 4 tackles (same as Slipper) but just had some more interest in the game.
McMahon was OK but the search for a real 8 continues and Chek will be dragged kicking and screaming to make another forced change.
As said previously we have gone backwards again. We are no better than earlier in the year.
The Argies in England will be tough.
Who would have thought a year or 2 ago that it will be a line ball game.
I din;t know whether Izzy's head is up his arse and needs to be brought back to earth by dropping him. Or he needs a rest - whatever but he really shouldn't be in the team next week.
Chek's selections are not good. The definition of insanity resonates in my head. The only bloke who played much better this week over the previous few was Scotty Sio. Still only made 4 tackles (same as Slipper) but just had some more interest in the game.
McMahon was OK but the search for a real 8 continues and Chek will be dragged kicking and screaming to make another forced change.
As said previously we have gone backwards again. We are no better than earlier in the year.
The Argies in England will be tough.
Who would have thought a year or 2 ago that it will be a line ball game.
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
I find it hard to blame Cheika for the standard of our playing stock.
He has picked some new players, and not many of them have been all that impressive, frankly.
As for tactics, none of us knows exactly where tactics, leadership, and player ability overlap. At the end of the day, when the whistle blows at the beginning of the game, the captain is in charge. If tactics are not working, or if the other side plays differently to our expectations, it is surely up to the captain to adjust tactics on the run. And it is also up to every player to adjust to changing circumstances quickly and competently.
He has picked some new players, and not many of them have been all that impressive, frankly.
As for tactics, none of us knows exactly where tactics, leadership, and player ability overlap. At the end of the day, when the whistle blows at the beginning of the game, the captain is in charge. If tactics are not working, or if the other side plays differently to our expectations, it is surely up to the captain to adjust tactics on the run. And it is also up to every player to adjust to changing circumstances quickly and competently.
Kenny Powers
Ron Walden (29)
Forum myths have a strange way of becoming accepted as fact, Foley and Cooper are not equivalent in goal kicking statistics
http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/w...s/news-story/17c6e3f0ed4398286beaec868485741e
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
KOB, I hate to disappoint, but I believe the decision has already been made and it is to remain as assistant coach at the Wallabies while still also being head coach at the Brumbies. A bit like Ben McCalman, almost nobody wants him but he just keeps turning up.
Strewthcobber
Andrew Slack (58)
jeeze Wambers - I don't think you'd find too many profesional level coaches (or captains!) Who would agree with that.
These days, with runners on the field, their vastly better view of the game, control of substitutions and the salaries they demmand - the Buck stops with the coach, even during the game.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
That's all well and good.
A Drover's Dog coaching any Australian team (such as Netball, Mungo, Union, Cricket, Hockey etc) should have a winning record above 50%. Anything less is just unacceptable. Very good or great coaches make players perform better. Whether its a bonding, selection based on merit,, cultural, man management, skills, motivational, tactical, captaincy issues or a player rotational thing it's the ability of the coach and his assistants to implement those things to a level that achieves a certain level of success. It's all about the 1% ers.
I believe we have the players so it's unfair or unnecessary to blame Chek for our playing stock.
I sort of agree with your captaincy comments but I reckon Chek would have a pre-determined tactic (like A or B).
Personally I think Cheika (but not his assistants) is the best man for the job ATM but he also shouldn't be insulated from constructive criticism when HIS (and our) team is performing at the level they currently are. He has to take responsibility, along with the players.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
But Kenny Powers stats mean nothing if you don't know what they represent.
I can say confidently that Cooper's statistics are dragged down because he was used as a part time option 2008-2012.
Since Foley was used as a full time kicker in 2014, he has kicked at 75%.
Interesting he kicks at 75% across his Super Rugby career (78% in 2014, 69% in 2015, 78% in 2016) and therefore the same across his test career. He seems to have a good series, and then a bad series and it all evens out at 75%.
It's not like any single seasons are dragging Foley down because he came out at around the same last year across his career too.
Most importantly, when you look at Foley's conversions, his percentage drops. Meaning when he doesn't have the choice to decline harder kicks, he doesn't kick as well and his penalties are holding his percentage up. For Cooper it's actually the opposite, he kicks higher on conversions, but his attempts for penalties are what drags him down as he attempts a slightly longer range.
Since Cooper was used as a first choice kicking option regularly in 2013 he kicks at around 72%.
3% is hardly enough of a disparity to justify selections on.
Is Cooper not a goal kicking option because he kicked poor over 4 seasons ago?
Sure if there two of them are on the park you go with the guy who's been most recently doing it and is likely to his 3 more shots out of 100, but you don't base the team on it.
I can say confidently that Cooper's statistics are dragged down because he was used as a part time option 2008-2012.
Since Foley was used as a full time kicker in 2014, he has kicked at 75%.
Interesting he kicks at 75% across his Super Rugby career (78% in 2014, 69% in 2015, 78% in 2016) and therefore the same across his test career. He seems to have a good series, and then a bad series and it all evens out at 75%.
It's not like any single seasons are dragging Foley down because he came out at around the same last year across his career too.
Most importantly, when you look at Foley's conversions, his percentage drops. Meaning when he doesn't have the choice to decline harder kicks, he doesn't kick as well and his penalties are holding his percentage up. For Cooper it's actually the opposite, he kicks higher on conversions, but his attempts for penalties are what drags him down as he attempts a slightly longer range.
Since Cooper was used as a first choice kicking option regularly in 2013 he kicks at around 72%.
3% is hardly enough of a disparity to justify selections on.
Is Cooper not a goal kicking option because he kicked poor over 4 seasons ago?
Sure if there two of them are on the park you go with the guy who's been most recently doing it and is likely to his 3 more shots out of 100, but you don't base the team on it.
upthereds#!
Peter Johnson (47)
considering the game is so soon and it is only 1 to go,
I'd say a Fardy, Timani, Hoops BR
recalling houston or mccalman for the bench spot. Houston can be picked but I believe this game is outside standard test windows, and if he is under contract with bath then they dont HAVE to release him. However as it's only less then a week, maybe they will.
Love to see Hodge @ 12 and some real speed & 1 on 1 ability out wide, but I think we will have to wait until Spring Tour for that. Doubt many other changes if any except maybe a 6/2 split considering the Puma strength is in their engergizer backrow.
Sio Moore Kepu
Coleman Douglas
Fardy Timani Hoops
Genia Quade Foley Kerevi
Hodge Folau DHP
Hanson Slipper Ala'alatoa Arnold (Mumm/TK) Houston Phipps Naivalu
I'd say a Fardy, Timani, Hoops BR
recalling houston or mccalman for the bench spot. Houston can be picked but I believe this game is outside standard test windows, and if he is under contract with bath then they dont HAVE to release him. However as it's only less then a week, maybe they will.
Love to see Hodge @ 12 and some real speed & 1 on 1 ability out wide, but I think we will have to wait until Spring Tour for that. Doubt many other changes if any except maybe a 6/2 split considering the Puma strength is in their engergizer backrow.
Sio Moore Kepu
Coleman Douglas
Fardy Timani Hoops
Genia Quade Foley Kerevi
Hodge Folau DHP
Hanson Slipper Ala'alatoa Arnold (Mumm/TK) Houston Phipps Naivalu
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
^^^^^^^Largely agree UTR, but with McMahon out for quite a few weeks he might also miss the EOYT. That could put more pressure on Bath to agree to release him (ie pressure by the Wallabies to release, and pressure from their fans not to release).
I think Hodge could do the job at 12, but I've long been an advocate of the two Ks in the centres, so I'm sticking with that until it is tried and proven not to work.
It does look like we'll get to see Timani at No 8 this week as apparently no-one is being flown in from the NRC setup to cover for McMahon.
I think Hodge could do the job at 12, but I've long been an advocate of the two Ks in the centres, so I'm sticking with that until it is tried and proven not to work.
It does look like we'll get to see Timani at No 8 this week as apparently no-one is being flown in from the NRC setup to cover for McMahon.
dru
Tim Horan (67)
I wonder where the Bok's supporters who didn't want Morne Steyn picked are at the moment?
Nothing has changed in this area. Coetze needed a win desperately especially at Lftus. It was an excuse for retrograde coaching and selections. Understandable, impressive even, but retrograde.
This "traditional" Saffer rugby is changing. Lions show the way, Cheetahs even less structured, definitely not "traditional". Bulls trying hard to change to the running game, about half way through the transition. I think Sharks are trying to use the backs better. Ignore Kings as an irrelavency.
The odd man out is Stormers. And Coetze.
Saffers fans I speak to suggest that this "traditional" game is not African at all. That rugby starts in age groups with 15 man rugby, gets more running style at school seniors (or their equivalent). Starts to be bashed out of them at u20s, then Curry Cup has another bash. Super Rugby is now (mostly) trying to revert to the grass roots game. Saffers love it and want more.
A game at Loftus winning in increments of three will please the hard headed rugby tragics in Africa. But no-one else. There is no doubt that Loftus encourages this style. It may not do so well in the modern era in NZ Argentina, Australia. And Europe.
For the nay-sayers, just presume every thing above starts with three letters IMO.
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