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State and Territory politics

Discussion in 'Politics' started by boyo, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. boyo Mark Ella (57)

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  2. Gnostic Mark Ella (57)

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    My posts last year regarding corruption of Governmental systems in the two party controlled parliaments aren't looking so wacko or far out now.

    If there was an ICAC in Qld and at the Federal level NSW I am absolutely sure, would not be so alone in its shame.

    Watch how the Libs will act to shut schemes and funds that have been used to launder "donations" and open new ones.

    I wonder what people regard as worse, the Labour individuals acting to line their own pockets and the party knowing (or being wilfully blind) to it, or the Liberals laundering money and accepting bribes to gain power (they tend get their pay day post politics from their developer/miner mates).
    boyo likes this.
  3. boyo Mark Ella (57)

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  4. Blue Andrew Slack (58)

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    Or the corruption in the unions and the fact that everyone knows that only the top of the Iceberg has been exposed.

    Hang on that's more or less the same as LNP corruption. As you were then.
  5. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    Tim Owen admitted to perjurng himself to ICAC about returning the $10,000 bribe paid to him.

    He could face up to 5 years gaol.
  6. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    Both Owen and Cornwell resigned from parliament. Two bi-elections coming up.

  7. Gnostic Mark Ella (57)

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    It is 7 months to the State Election. Given the massive revelations of corruption in both major parties just call a general election. Why waste the money on a Bi-Election for a matter of two or three months? This will only be used by the major parties to gauge th best tactics to divert attention from their own corruption to the other's and away from the real issues effecting good governance in NSW.

    I have to ask WTF is the point of having state Governors? In the previous Labour government we had 5 premiers without an election, with ministers charged withe serious criminal offences and other MPs resigning due to corruption allegations. This liberal government has seen the Premier resign after compromising his integrity and other ministers and MPs shown to be corrupt. If the Governors cannot dissolve the Parliament under such circumstances why are we wasting shit loads of money on what must therefore be a purely ceremonial position.

    I also note that Tony and Arthur Sinodinous have been very quiet about this whole sordid saga now there is no mileage to be made from throwing mud at Labour.
    boyo and Braveheart81 like this.
  8. Lindommer Andrew Slack (58)

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    Very difficult to do, Gnostic, now there are four year fixed terms in New South Wales (and, I stand to be corrected, Victoria). TBH, I can put up with a bit of crap for far fewer elections.
  9. barbarian Nick Farr-Jones (63)

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    You make it sound like the whole state of NSW is corrupt and akin to Chicago in the 1960s.

    In reality these blokes have got done for taking a bit of money (in the manner of 10-50k) from prohibited donors before the last election. And if the High Court challenge wins (which it well may) what they have done isn't even illegal.

    I will wait for the findings of ICAC, but as yet that is as far as the 'corruption' has gone, and there has been no link proven between the money and any government decisions (which the two MPs had no power over, anyway).

    This is small time electoral funding stuff, which in reality hasn't affected the people of NSW one bit. I am not saying it is right, far from it, just putting it all in perspective. They have rightly resigned in disgrace.

    Now Obeid and co are another matter, but you would be mad to think the sins committed by Owen and Cornwell have not been replicated in all other states, and federally as well.

    I would argue politics today is probably the least corrupt as it ever has been.

    <edit> Reading that back it does sound a bit soft. You can't take developers money for campaigns, and these guys did. Bad, wrong, see you later. But I don't think it's 'throw them all out' time yet. There hasn't been any evidence of government decisions being affected because of this cash. If/when that happens then we get much closer to that point.
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  10. Gnostic Mark Ella (57)

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    You and I differ on this point totally. You have consistently defended MPs that have been investigated from both sides of politics. I on the other hand hold all individuals that are accorded any position of power to a higher level of integrity and behaviour than the average hack on the street.

    Do I think that the Liberal and Labour parties are fundamentally corrupt. Yes, I do. Do I think all the individuals involved are corrupt, of course not, but that matters little when the machinery of the party has been perverted and even innocent actions end up supporting said corruption. Take for example the 1940-1990s Qld Police Force, from the Commissioner down numerous individuals were corrupt, other knew about it and took no action (in many circumstances because they could not because they would be killed or their family members would be), same with the Qld government in the same period and again the BLF Union in NSW. In each organisation there was extensive corruption and other knew about it and did nothing effective to expose it for whatever reason. Those institutions had to be totally overhauled (BLF was de-registered) to remove/control the issue, indeed there are strong indicators that in Qld the issue is resurgent, with Mr Fitzgerald expressing those very sentiments.

    Given Mike Gallacher's was a Detective during the Wood Royal Commission he saw many colleagues sacked for unethical behaviour if not proven criminality. Was this behaviour acceptable as a Police Officer? Why did he think such behaviour could be tolerated when he became a senior liberal party MP? That he then led junior members of the party into aiding the activities and they were either unable or unwilling to stand against those activities and have now paid the price, is indicative of the culture or the party and the "doing whatever it takes to win". It is very disappointing that these individuals, in particular Owens, who had been a senior officer in the ADF, did not display ethical resilience.

    As for it being small time electoral funding stuff, I don't care if it is "small time" it is a matter of integrity and these individuals have shown a decided lack of that quality which is required to be MPs in this country.
    I like to watch, boyo and Bullrush like this.
  11. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    Garry Edwards, MP for Swansea is the latest Hunter Valley MP to be dumped in the poo.

    I wonder if he'll last out the week?
  12. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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  13. I like to watch Simon Poidevin (60)

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    That map suggests to me that Cessnock,Lake Macquarie & Wallsend must be held by the opposition!
  14. I like to watch Simon Poidevin (60)

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    I agree entirely.
    Either it's right or it's wrong.
    The amount in question is irrelevant.
  15. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    He's already moved to the cross benches so even the map above is no longer accurate.

    Swansea would be red now under that criteria.
  16. boyo Mark Ella (57)

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  17. barbarian Nick Farr-Jones (63)

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    Yep. Cessnock and Wallsend are Labor, LM is independent.
  18. barbarian Nick Farr-Jones (63)

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    His trouble will come from the fact that the seats directly affected by ICAC are marginal seats they were hoping to hold on to. Newcastle and Swansea were likely gone, but they had a really good shot at holding Charlestown, Wyong and the Entrance.

    I am not sure how much of a difference it will make in non-affected areas like Western and Southern Sydney (where the election will now be run and won). It will be a topic of debate, but neither party has a great record on the subject and will both probably want to switch the debate back to budget, infrastructure etc.
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  19. Blue Andrew Slack (58)

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    This is all godsend for the lefties.

    Conveniently distracts from the real corruption and self enrichment in the upper echelons of the Laborious party and the disgraceful CMFEU corruption.

    These guys all deserve the sack but let's err on the cautious side of getting all sanctimonious shall we?

    Imagine we could fire all pollies on all sides and start again?
  20. Lindommer Andrew Slack (58)

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    The Liberal victories last election in Newcastle, Maitland, Swansea and Charlestown were an aberration, ordinarily they SHOULD be died-in-the-wool Labor seats. The major parties contest every seat at general elections (not always at by-elections) and those in charge would probably not allocate huge resources to keeping those four Hunter seats in next year's election. The pendulum's going to return to something like normal after the Labor rout in 2011.

    On the other hand, Port Stephens and the Central Coast seats are always marginal, generally who wins those forms government. There's no doubt the shenanigans exposed ATM will harm Liberal candidates next year, but I reckon they're a chance of retaining one or two of them. For some reason the ICAC are spending time now on the Liberal side of wrongdoings, they'll probably start on the next swathe of Obeid misdemeanours soon. Labor have a long way to go to before they're a chance of forming government.

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