Super Rugby Round 3, 2018 - Sharks vs Waratahs @ Durban

[Derpus]

One of the other moderators made it clear there will be zero tolerance for using derogatory terms for players, and I cannot imagine how the word you used was not offensive on several levels.
No more.

Apologies, i meant to convey small and weak. Nothing more. Shall be more considerate next time.

 

[RugbyReg]

My limited understanding of the mechanics of the scrummage is that on one's own feed, some of the grunt is lost because of the necessity of striking for the pill. Whereas on the opponent's feed, it can be the old eight man shove.

I believe the new rules makes it compulsory for both teams to hook for the ball, which now counters the above.

 

[TOCC]

I believe the new rules makes it compulsory for both teams to hook for the ball, which now counters the above.

There's been a few amendments relevant to this issue.

-First one is that a player in the front row from the team feeding the ball must strike for the ball, otherwise its a penalty.

-The second amendment designed to offset the loss of advantage of the first amendment ,is that the scrumhalf aligns their shoulder with the centre of the scrum allowing them to stand closer to their own props rather then down the middle, which means the team feeding the ball is still offered an advantage as the ball is now fed at the feet of the front row, rather then half a meter in front. The ball must still be fed straight.

-Finally the number 8 is not allowed to reach in further to retrieve the ball, he can now grab it from the feet of the locks where previously he had to wait until it was at his feet.

All in all its designed to speed up the scrums, and now rather then trying to drive over the ball, hookers and front rowers are again been encouraged to hook for the ball. Whilst the defending team may have the advantage of an 8 man shove, the attacking team has the benefit of a faster scrum if they feed and hook accurately.

So if we throw our mind back to the 2015 RWC in the match against Fiji, the Wallabies would have been penalised because no one in the front row hooked for the ball, instead they were trying to drive over the ball.

 

[Silverado]

I believe the new rules makes it compulsory for both teams to hook for the ball, which now counters the above.

Pretty sure that's not the case, the advantage to attacking scrum is 1/2 chooses when to feed, and shoulder is aligned to prop so compensates for the 8 man shove


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[Braveheart81]

Fuck me i can't another professional game of rugby that involves Wells.

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I thought he was the Tahs third best forward after Hooper and Hanigan.

The ball he lost in contact down the left edge on a break was costly but generally he was pretty good. I thought Holloway was anonymous and made it clear why Wells has been picked ahead of him.

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[Braveheart81]

Peyper, a crap performance as usual. Always refs one side only, first five penalties to the Sharks surely laid down a marker. And reversed a scrum feed 'cause the "Tahs weren't taking the weight". WTF? How 'bout the Sharks aren't supposed to push until the ball's been fed! Jaco'd have to be about the ugliest ref to watch whistle a game, and I'm not referring to his physical features.

I thought that free kick was reasonable. It looked like the Tahs went with the conscious effort of stepping back and trying to milk a free kick and Peyper saw it.

The Tahs certainly weren't taking the weight like they were about to battle in a live scrum.


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[Harv]

That was a mightily shite game of rugby. Ball was slippery from sweat, but that doesn't explain the relentless waves of attacking stupidity from both teams. Sharks should give themselves an uppercut for losing. NSW deserve credit for keeping it close and drawing when they deserved to lose by a dozen, but the scrum inadequacies and lack of forward penetration are issues they won't be able to hide for much longer.

 

[Silverado]

That was a mightily shite game of rugby. Ball was slippery from sweat, but that doesn't explain the relentless waves of attacking stupidity from both teams. Sharks should give themselves an uppercut for losing. NSW deserve credit for keeping it close and drawing when they deserved to lose by a dozen, but the scrum inadequacies and lack of forward penetration are issues they won't be able to hide for much longer.

Yep. Need a win next week to make it a successful tour and hope the injured are available when they get back. So far undefeated, so that's good. Returning player will help, but the team need to step up or it'll be pretty bleak when we meet the Kiwis


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[Hawko]

Given the travel I think we can pretty certainly mark off a round four loss to the Rebels. We could easily lose to the Jags next week, but I think we just might scrape a win. That means we go into the bye round with two wins, a draw and a loss. Given the state of play you'd take that anytime.

"We do need Kurtley back; he provided some starch to the midfield defence along with his attacking creativity." Now there's something you didn't expect to read in a lifetime.

 

[Derpus]

I thought he was the Tahs third best forward after Hooper and Hanigan.

The ball he lost in contact down the left edge on a break was costly but generally he was pretty good. I thought Holloway was anonymous and made it clear why Wells has been picked ahead of him.

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More of a damning indictment of the overall quality of the pack than a redeeming feature of Wells.

Agree Holloway was poor.

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[wamberal]

I thought he was the Tahs third best forward after Hooper and Hanigan.

The ball he lost in contact down the left edge on a break was costly but generally he was pretty good. I thought Holloway was anonymous and made it clear why Wells has been picked ahead of him.

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Holloway just cannot make the step up. Dunno why. He has got the frame, and the skills, maybe something to do with his mindset?

 

[cyclopath]

Holloway just cannot make the step up. Dunno why. He has got the frame, and the skills, maybe something to do with his mindset?

Could be. He plays a wide and loose game in NRC and impresses by virtue of being big, pretty mobile and skilled. But Super level is a jump. I think his long period of injury and rehab might be a factor too - the body becomes less easy to "trust". You see it in quite a few who have had long recoveries from injuries. Having spent some time talking to him when he was re-habbing about 15-16 months ago, he certainly has the application and dedication, it seemed. Maybe he needs to be left in the furnace more rather than being a sub?

 

[Silverado]

Could be. He plays a wide and loose game in NRC and impresses by virtue of being big, pretty mobile and skilled. But Super level is a jump. I think his long period of injury and rehab might be a factor too - the body becomes less easy to "trust". You see it in quite a few who have had long recoveries from injuries. Having spent some time talking to him when he was re-habbing about 15-16 months ago, he certainly has the application and dedication, it seemed. Maybe he needs to be left in the furnace more rather than being a sub?

Thought he was very good off the bench last week, struggled as a starter this week. I haven't seen much of Meafua, but he impressed me in the trials at 8 with his uncompromising play


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[fatprop]

Holloway continues to not contribute enough unfortunately.

Complaints about Wells are understandable, but at least he does plenty, like Staniforth

The scrum was clearly better than last week for long periods, but still plenty of work to do

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[wamberal]

Who else is there, anyway?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Maybe the game plan doesn't suit Holloway's style of play. Maybe he is being asked to play tighter than he likes and is used to, just like Higginbotham apparently was in past seasons with the Wallabies.

 

[Up the Guts]

2 points in South Africa is a good result even though it was an ugly way of getting there. The Waratahs with a lighter pack may actually struggle more against South African teams, playing tightly with emphasis on the set piece, than the Kiwi teams who will throw it around and chance their arm more potentially bringing in counterattacking opportunities for Folau and co.

 

[fatprop]

Well if the options are a guy who can do randomly good things if he is allowed to play wide and contribute little to the dog work; or a guy without the ability to do random good things, but will do the dog work, I will take the "b" option

Start Palmer at lock, Hanigan at 8 or 6, one of the young locks off the bench.

We don't have the ability to carry anyone, no passengers, everyone needs to contribute to all facets of the work

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[Braveheart81]

This suggestion that Holloway isn't doing well because the game plan doesn't suit him really doesn't hold up. The Tahs had plenty of wide running opportunities and Wells was involved in a couple of them (although unfortunately dropped the ball in contact on a big bust down the left hand side).

The Tahs are in no way playing a tight structure that only involves the forwards punching the ball up close to the ruck. They are playing with lots of width and trying to move the ball quickly. It's a style that should suit Holloway.

He had some good moments in round 2 off the bench but was ineffectual starting. He needs to improve like most of the team. At this point he doesn't look close to taking the number 8 jersey off Wells.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

I thought that free kick was reasonable. It looked like the Tahs went with the conscious effort of stepping back and trying to milk a free kick and Peyper saw it.

The Tahs certainly weren't taking the weight like they were about to battle in a live scrum.


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I thought this came from a poor engagement call from Jaco and should have been a re-set. It looked like that’s what half our scrum was expecting but the call went against us.