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Sydney First Grade teams

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lincoln

Bob Loudon (25)
Some recollections - happy to be corrected
1976 was sixteen team comp with Hornsby and Macquarie Uni included - resulting in a number of very loopsided encounters.
I think 1977 saw the introduction of a 3 division system, with teams like Forestville in the thirds (mate of mine made the 3rds rep team and has a SRU tie) - but I think the 3 div system only lasted a few years with some clubs going back to subbies and the two top divs being enlarged
In 1978 Manly played second div because they came last in 1st grade but did well in club championship - system changed for the next year
1979 Sydney University was in second division along with St George, Port Hacking, Smithfield, Hawkesbury Ag, Canterbury, Liverpool. Campbelltown and others - I think Hornsby and UNSW were still in 1st division
1980 East played in second div
1981 Norths played second div
1983 the top clubs left SRU and played under the auspices of NSWRU
 

runningrugbyrules

Chris McKivat (8)
Teams that I have seen play in my lifetime, apart of course from the current bunch, Drummoyne, St George, Port Hacking, University of NSW, Newcastle, Canberra, Hornsby - some of those in Second Division, when there was a Second Division. I do recall Eastwood winning the Second Division title one year. I think Macquarie University also had a team in Second Division for a couple of years.
Correct, Eastwood were demoted to second division in the very early 80's and recalled John Ballesty as coach. He recruited a couple of kids from the local high school (Epping Boys about 1km up the road) called Tynamen and Papworth and they were back in the top grade where they have remained since !
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)

runningrugbyrules

Chris McKivat (8)
Imagine a 1990-1992 Eastwood team with ex-Woods Brett Papwortth, Scott Gourley, Tim Kelaher, Darren Junnee along with fellow Eastwood Wallabies Matt Burke, Marty Roebuck, Andrew Cairns. Would have made a very competitive team
 

the coach

Bob Davidson (42)
That continued into the 90's with players being told that very thing.
And who says it isnt happening now?

Surely the wonderful Player Points system has addressed this ;)
Actually Randwick 1st grade team at the moment only has 1 player who has played grade for another SS club.
The problem these days has shifted from grade to colts where players are being targetted immediately they leave school, if not before.
But what can you do?
Players with ambition will go wherever they think their chances of moving to a higher level are best served.
Rugby is no different to life in general in this regard.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Rugby is no different to life in general in this regard.

It is for some of us and possibly for the players you speak of.
Its arguable that the players would develop more quickly and to better players if they were exposed to close hard games in all grades on a weekly basis.
I suspects that is a secret to NZ's permanent success.
I think the idea of limiting how many points a club can register across all grades might produce a better comp.
The beauty of a system in which the club was restricted in the number of points it could register throughout the club would be that it could not be dodged by playing points players in lower grades and the clubs would actually have to make their choices in recruitment - if they think player Y was an overrated schoolboy and someone carrying fewer or no points would fit their scheme they go for that kid.
At the moment there seem to be too many loopholes.
You could also make it a bit more interesting and give the clubs some junior skin in the game by halving points, say, for kids who played 2 or 3 seasons in juniors for a club they are planning to register for.
Australian rugby needs close comps.
 

the coach

Bob Davidson (42)
Inside Shoulder, I agree with most of your points -- there must be a better way than the current system which has achieved little. The advent of the NRC has effectively made the player points system redundant for grade anyway.
Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any will to do anything about it. The SRU is a non-entity and the clubs seem content with the status quo.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
the clubs seem content with the status quo.

I wonder - don't know enough to know how they agree on anything but it may be that a few are happy but without unanimity nothing can be done.
They need to take a wider view but the ARU's attitude to them means they have no reason to provide it with a better product.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Some recollections - happy to be corrected
1976 was sixteen team comp with Hornsby and Macquarie Uni included - resulting in a number of very loopsided encounters.
I think 1977 saw the introduction of a 3 division system, with teams like Forestville in the thirds (mate of mine made the 3rds rep team and has a SRU tie) - but I think the 3 div system only lasted a few years with some clubs going back to subbies and the two top divs being enlarged
In 1978 Manly played second div because they came last in 1st grade but did well in club championship - system changed for the next year
1979 Sydney University was in second division along with St George, Port Hacking, Smithfield, Hawkesbury Ag, Canterbury, Liverpool. Campbelltown and others - I think Hornsby and UNSW were still in 1st division
1980 East played in second div
1981 Norths played second div
1983 the top clubs left SRU and played under the auspices of NSWRU

I think that's about right. When the top clubs left in 1983, Easts and Norths were left marooned in 2nd division. Not sure when Easts got back up, but Norths had to wait until the mid 90s. I think that Drummoyne also came up with them in either the same year or just after.

Norths made a better fist of it than the Dirty Reds.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
"Premier Clubs" of early 1900's also included :
South Sydney
Glebe
Balmain
Newtown

Prior to that ( 1874 to 1900 )also included :
Waratahs
Wallaroos
Redfern
Burwood
Pirates
Glebe and Balmain merged in 1919 after the interuption of WW1 - hence the red jersey of Glebe and the black and gold hooped socks of Balmain. They were known as Glebe-Balmain until 1931. They were forced by the local council to change their name to Drummoyne to have Drummoyne Oval as their home ground.

The current Balmain subbies club has nothing to do with the original Balmain and has wrongly been allowed IMHO to appropriate the name "Balmain", which rightly belongs to Drummoyne. (Not sure if it's still there, but the sign at Drummoyne Oval always used to read "Drummoyne DRUFC incorporating Glebe-Balmain")
 

Dave Beat

Paul McLean (56)
I think that's about right. When the top clubs left in 1983, Easts and Norths were left marooned in 2nd division. Not sure when Easts got back up, but Norths had to wait until the mid 90s. I think that Drummoyne also came up with them in either the same year or just after.

Norths made a better fist of it than the Dirty Reds.
norths 89
drummoyne 91
 

red son

Frank Nicholson (4)
One of my interests has been Sydney club rugby and I have compiled a list of clubs involved. Until 1885, it is not that simple to distinguish between "senior" (ie first grade) clubs and "junior" (2nd tier) clubs. Following is some of the info I have. I do have more going back to 1865.

IN THE BEGINNING – 1860s to 1899

Club rugby in Sydney commenced some time before 1865. Sydney University Football Club (SUFC) - the oldest existing rugby club in Australia - has traditionally claimed to have been established in 1863. There is no archival evidence for this. Games may or may not have been played by SUFC in 1863 and 1864 but there is no record of these.

Three clubs, University, Sydney Football Club and the Australian Club, are reported as playing in 1865 which was the first “recorded season” (articles in newspapers and journals) of rugby football in Sydney.

A union (the Southern Rugby Football Union) to control "football" in the colony of NSW was formed in 1874. Ten clubs were present on 24 June 1874 at the inaugural meeting of the Southern Rugby Football Union (latter renamed the “New South Wales Rugby Football Union” in 1892).

The 10 clubs present at that first 1874 meeting were:
5 Metropolitan clubs:
Balmain
University
Victoria (located in Darlington)
Wallaroo
Waratah
2 Country clubs:
Goulburn
Mudgee
3 Schools:
Camden College (Glebe)
Newington College (then in Silverwater now at Stanmore)
The King’s School (Parramatta)

Although there was a Rugby Union from 1874, there was no centrally controlled competition until the Gardiner Challenge Cup was introduced in 1883. Prior to that, clubs organised their own games by arrangement between themselves. Not all clubs played each other during a season.

Clubs were seen as "senior" and "junior" clubs. Your status could change from season to season. A "Premier Club of the Colony" was declared, but this was not necessarily the best performing club. This “cosmopolitan” [ie from all parts of Sydney] club system lasted from 1874 to 1899. The Southern Rugby Football Union changed its name on 26 April 1892 to the New South Wales Rugby Football Union (NSWRFU). A Metropolitan Branch of the NSWRFU (more commonly known as the Metropolitan Rugby Union) was formed on 5 March 1897 to take over the running of the Sydney club competition. The resolution to establish this metropolitan union was carried by the NSWRFU in September 1896.


Gardiner Challenge Cup 1883-88.

1883 (mixture of senior & junior clubs) Redfern, University, Wallaroo, Newtown, Burwood, Oriental, Glebe, Balmain, St Leonards, Parramatta, Arfoma, Paddington.

1884 (mixture of senior & junior clubs) Burwood,University, Redfern, Balmain, Arfoma, St Leonards, Newtown, Parramatta Union, Parramatta, Waverley, Glebe, Summer Hill.

From 1885, clubs are shown in order of results. "Senior" grade clubs only are now shown.

1885 University, Wallaroo, Burwood, Arfoma, Balmain, Redfern, Newtown, St Leonards.

1886 Gordon, University, Arfoma, Wallaroo, Burwood, Balmain, Rosedale, Balmain Wellington, Redfern, Glebe, Newtown.

1887 University, Burwood, Arfoma, Wallaroo, Newtown, Rosedale, Gordon, Balmain, Balmain Wellington, Glebe.

1888 University, Arfoma, Rosedale, Wallaroo, Newtown, Balmain, Balmain Wellington, Burwood.

1889 University "A", Strathfield, Arfoma, Zealandia, Rosedale, Elvira, Randwick, Double Bay, University "B", Parramatta, Wallaroo, Cammeray, Newtown, Strathfield Rovers (withdrew).

RAS Shield 1890-93

1890 University "A", Strathfield, Parramatta, Arfoma, Sydney, Wallaroo, Rosedale, University "B", Zealandia, Randwick, Elvira.

1891 University "A", Strathfield, Wallaroo, Zealandia, Sydney, Randwick, Parramatta, University "B", Rosedale (retired), Arfoma (retired).

1892 Wallaroo, University "A", Wentworth, Randwick, Zealandia, Wentworth, Parramatta, Strathfield, University "B", Sydney (retired), Balmain (retired).

1893 University, Randwick, Wallaroo, Parramatta, Wentworth, Pirate, Carlton.

1894 Wallaroo, University, Pirate, Randwick, Paddington, Parramatta, Glebe.

1895 Randwick, University, Pirate, Wallaroo, Wentworth, Paddington Electorate, Balmain.

1896 Randwick, Wentworth, Wallaroo, University, Pirate, Paddington (withdrew).

1897 Randwick, Pirate, Wentworth, University, Wallaroo, Paddington.

1898 Pirate, Sydney, Randwick, University, Wallaroo, Paddington.

1899 Wallaroo, Randwick, Sydney, Marrickville, Pirate, Buccaneer, University, Parramatta.

DISTRICT COMPETITION – 1900 until WW1

The NSWRFU/MRU decided to conduct a “District Competition” from 1900 replacing the existing “Cosmopolitan” one. Initially it was intended that the district competition would start as from the 1899 season. However as there was a British tour to Australia in 1899, the start was postponed to 1900 so as not to interfere with preparations for that tour.

The 8 clubs that made up the inaugural 1900 “District Competition” were:
1. Balmain District
2. Eastern Suburbs District
3. Glebe District
4. Newtown District
5. North Sydney District
6. South Sydney District
7. University Football Club (ie Sydney University)
8. Western Suburbs District.

The competition ran from 1900 to 1914, stopping during World War I (ie 1915 to 1918), and recommencing in 1919.

A club competition has continued to the present day (under the auspices of either NSWRU, Metropolitan RU or Sydney Rugby Union).

Cubs are in alphabetical order. (Clubs shown in bold are making their debut or changed their name. Underlined clubs are returning.)

1900-04 (8 clubs): Balmain, Eastern Suburbs, Glebe, Newtown, North Sydney, South Sydney, University, Western Suburbs.
1905 (9 clubs): Balmain, Eastern Suburbs, Glebe, Newtown, North Sydney, South Sydney, Sydney, University, Western Suburbs.
1906-1910 (11): Balmain, Eastern Suburbs, Glebe, Manly, Newtown, North Sydney, St George, South Sydney, Sydney, University, Western Suburbs.
1911-1913 (10): Balmain, Eastern Suburbs, Glebe, Manly, Newtown, North Sydney, St George, South Sydney, University, Western Suburbs.
1914 (11): Balmain, Eastern Suburbs, Glebe, Manly, Newtown, North Sydney, St George, Randwick, South Sydney, University, Western Suburbs.

AFTER WORLD WAR I

The NSWRU changed its by-laws on 11 March 1919 to disband the Metropolitan Union and allow the NSW Union to again directly take over the running of the club competition. The MRU had operated from 1897 to 1918. There was no official competitions between 1915 to 1918 due to World War I).

On recommencement of competition after World War I in 1919, only 6 clubs competed:

1919 (6): Cambridge (based in Newtown), Eastern Suburbs, Glebe-Balmain, Manly, University, Y.M.C.A.
1920 (8): Eastern Suburbs, Glebe-Balmain, Manly, Mosman, Newtown, North Sydney, University, Western Suburbs.
1921 (8): Eastern Suburbs, Glebe-Balmain, GPS Old Boys, Manly, Newtown, North Sydney, University, Western Suburbs.
1922 (8): Eastern Suburbs, Glebe-Balmain, GPS Old Boys, Manly, North Sydney, Petersham, University, Western Suburbs.
1923-24 (9): Eastern Suburbs, Glebe-Balmain, GPS Old Boys, Manly, North Sydney, Randwick, University, Western Suburbs, YMCA.
1925-27 (8): Eastern Suburbs, Glebe-Balmain, Manly, North Sydney, Randwick, University, Western Suburbs, YMCA.
1928 (9): Eastern Suburbs, Glebe-Balmain, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Randwick, St George, University, Western Suburbs, YMCA.
1929 (10): Eastern Suburbs, Glebe-Balmain, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Police, Randwick, St George, University, Western Suburbs, YMCA.
1930 (8): Eastern Suburbs, Glebe-Balmain, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Randwick, St George, University, Western Suburbs.
1931-33 (8): Eastern Suburbs, Drummoyne, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Randwick, St George, University, Western Suburbs.
1934-35 (9): Eastern Suburbs, Drummoyne, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Randwick, St George, University, Western Suburbs.
1936-46 (10): Eastern Suburbs, Drummoyne, Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Randwick, St George, University, Western Suburbs.
1947-51 (11): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Drummoyne, Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Randwick, St George, University, Western Suburbs.
1952-65 (10): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Drummoyne, Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Randwick, St George, University.
1966-70 (12): Eastern Suburbs, Drummoyne, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Randwick, St George, Sydney University, University of NSW, Western Suburbs.
1971-75 (14): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Drummoyne, Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Port Hacking, Randwick, St George, Sydney University, University of NSW, Warringah, Western Suburbs.
1976-78 (16): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Drummoyne, Gordon, Hornsby, Macquarie University, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Port Hacking, Randwick, St George, Sydney University, University of NSW, Warringah, Western Suburbs.

PROMOTION AND RELEGATION

A Second Division was established in 1962. When a Third Division was established in 1979 promotion and relegation between divisions was introduced. It lasted from 1979 to 1986.

1979 (10): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Randwick, University of NSW, Warringah, Western Suburbs.
1980 (10): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Randwick, St George, Sydney University, Warringah.
1981 (10): Gordon, Hornsby, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Randwick, St George, Sydney University, Western Suburbs, Warringah.
1982 (10): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Parramatta, Randwick, St George, Sydney University, Western Suburbs, Warringah.
1983 (10): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Port Hacking, Parramatta, Randwick, St George, Western Suburbs, Warringah
1984 (10): Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Port Hacking, Parramatta, Randwick, St George, Sydney University, Western Suburbs, Warringah
1985 (10): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Port Hacking, Parramatta, Randwick, Sydney University, Western Suburbs, Warringah
1986 (10): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Parramatta, Randwick, St George, Sydney University, Western Suburbs, Warringah

"NSW CHAMPIONSHIP CLUBS"

In 1987, the ten clubs that had been in the 1986 First Division affiliated directly with the NSWRU leaving the Sydney RU. The dispute was over promotion and relegation and a proposed restructure of the competition. This "break-away" lasted for two years (1987 and 1988).

1987-88 (10): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Parramatta, Randwick, St George, Sydney University, Warringah, Western Suburbs.

"CHAMPIONSHIP CLUBS" RETURN

1989 (10): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Parramatta, Randwick, Southern Districts, Sydney University, Warringah, Western Suburbs.
1990 (11): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Randwick, Southern Districts, Sydney University, Warringah, Western Suburbs.
1991-93 (12): Drummoyne, Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Randwick, Southern Districts, Sydney University, Warringah, Western Suburbs.
1994 (12): UTS-Drummoyne, Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Randwick, Southern Districts, Sydney University, Warringah, Western Suburbs.

EXPANSION

1995-98 (14): Canberra (Kookaburras), Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Newcastle, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Penrith, Randwick, Southern Districts, Sydney University, Warringah, West Harbour.
1999 (14): Canberra Vikings, Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Newcastle, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Penrith, Randwick, Southern Districts, Sydney University, Warringah, West Harbour.
2000 (13): Canberra Vikings, Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Penrith, Randwick, Southern Districts, Sydney University, Warringah, West Harbour.

PREMIER RUGBY

2001-03 (12): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Penrith, Randwick, Southern Districts, Sydney University, Warringah, West Harbour.
2004-05 (13): Canberra Vikings, Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Penrith, Randwick, Southern Districts, Sydney University, Warringah, West Harbour.
2006 (12): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Penrith, Randwick, Southern Districts, Sydney University, Warringah, West Harbour.
2007 (13): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Illawarra, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Penrith, Randwick, Southern Districts, Sydney University, Warringah, West Harbour.
2008- (12): Eastern Suburbs, Eastwood, Gordon, Manly, Northern Suburbs, Parramatta, Penrith, Randwick, Southern Districts, Sydney University, Warringah, West Harbour.
 

red son

Frank Nicholson (4)
^^^^^Fantasatic research Red Son. A lot of work would have gone into that.

You deserve a G&GR 'Mention in Dispatches' at the very least.:)


Thank you QH it's always good to find others interested in this stuff. I also have all the 2nd and third division teams. Not a lot of people are that interested. Have always wanted to find a home for my "interest". Also have premiers all grades going back to 1874.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Thank you QH it's always good to find others interested in this stuff. I also have all the 2nd and third division teams. Not a lot of people are that interested. Have always wanted to find a home for my "interest". Also have premiers all grades going back to 1874.

You've come to the right place to find people who are interested in this. :)
 
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