Sydney Subbies 2022

[Prodigy]

Looking to next season, 8 teams per division has to be the end goal. See below for a possible layout that should keep most happy and minimise the weeks where a whole grade goes without games (see Div 2 4th Grade this season...). Thoughts??

Div 1	Div 2	Div 3	Div 4	Div 5a	Div 5b
4 + C	4 + C	3	2	1	1
Blue Mountains	Newport	Harlequins	Renegades	Menai	Oatley
Colleagues	UNSW	Briars	Sydney Harbour (1)	Irish	Balmain
Waverley	Hills	Iggies	Mac Uni	Wakehurst	Dukes
Hunters Hill	Lindfield	Beecroft	Chatswood	North Cronulla	Lane Cove
St Pats	Hawkesbury Valley (3)	Savers	Saints	Burraneer	Maccabi
Mosman	Barker (2)	Epping	Kings	Brothers	Convicts
Petersham	Knox	Redfield	Canterbury	Raptors	Colleagues 5/6 ?
Forest	Drummoyne	Blacktown	Hawkesbury Ag		Mosman 5/6 ?

I had suggested something similar in a conversation with some of the guys at Epping. My structure was a little different though.

Div1	Div 2	Div3	Div4	Radford	Meldrum
4+C	3+C	3	2	C	Extra Teams
Blue Mountains	Petersham/Forest	Beecroft	Blacktown	Beecroft	Colleagues
Colleagues	Barker	Briars	Chatswood	Mac Uni	Waverley
Drummoyne	Hawkesbury Valley	Epping	HAC	Briars	Mosman
Hunters Hill	Hills	Harlequins	Harbour	Iggies	Mountains
Mosman	Knox	Mac Uni	Iggies	Saints	Petersham/Forest
St Pats	Lindfield	Merrylands	Saints	Wakehurst	Newport
Waverley	Newport	Redfield	Convicts	Mosman	Hills
Petersham/Forest	UNSW	Savers	Kings Old Boys	Colleagues	Lindfield

All other clubs would fall into the Division 5 (one team) competition: Canterbury, Raptors, Menai, Irish, Wakehurst, SeaLice, Burraneer, Brothers, Balmain, Oatley, Dukes, Lane Cove.
If any of them could prove numbers for two team, they would potentially enter Division 4.
Radford Cup runs for the full season for those clubs as well.
The Meldrum Cup becomes a competition with a full home and away season for clubs with the extra teams from the change in structure. It would be considered as each club's next grade after their obligations.
Halligans Cup still runs for the non-regular games needed by clubs. I don't think it should attract an extra charge, as it should be about building club numbers.

 

[Pfitzy]

Halligans Cup still runs for the non-regular games needed by clubs. I don't think it should attract an extra charge, as it should be about building club numbers.

Good point. Have always found the "4 games and you start paying" a bit random. It is proportional tho I believe so e.g. if you play 7 games of a 14 week season it is only 50%?

I think I prefer the structure you and @Mangoman have above as far as Colts not being compulsory for Div 3 - while I understand the *original* reasoning, it is a slog trying to get Colts going.

We'll give it a shot next year with a few current guys and some juniors from local clubs and league, but lot of work as Epping can no doubt attest.

 

[WestCoast]

From my slight Cluch viewing of Div 2, I dont rate UNSW, Hills, Lindfield or Barker. Sloppy across the park and can only rack up wins against the lower teams. No structure. The teams below them are playing a poor standard as well as would do good from Subbies slotting a Div 3 Comp in where they can rebuild.

DD - I feel that Knox will be the only team dropping down to Div 2. Every other team is a cut above Div 2. No team from Div 2 would compete in Div 1. Every first grade team will get 30-40 put on them by the teams up here.

Interesting take when UNSW are the only team to beat Newport this year in all grades except colts.

 

[Eastcoast]

Interesting take when UNSW are the only team to beat Newport this year in all grades except colts.

A few points to take here;
- Was this when UNSW stacked their lower grades
- Was this when UNSW was playing dual registered players
- This game appeared to be at DP
- Newport appeared to be severely undermanned on that day which happens when you play away from home
- Would this result be different at Porters? - Yes

You may have beaten Newport - but were smashed by Valley. So that still doesnt win the Barraclough.

 

[En Gage]

I had suggested something similar in a conversation with some of the guys at Epping. My structure was a little different though.

Div1	Div 2	Div3	Div4	Radford	Meldrum
4+C	3+C	3	2	C	Extra Teams
Blue Mountains	Petersham/Forest	Beecroft	Blacktown	Beecroft	Colleagues
Colleagues	Barker	Briars	Chatswood	Mac Uni	Waverley
Drummoyne	Hawkesbury Valley	Epping	HAC	Briars	Mosman
Hunters Hill	Hills	Harlequins	Harbour	Iggies	Mountains
Mosman	Knox	Mac Uni	Iggies	Saints	Petersham/Forest
St Pats	Lindfield	Merrylands	Saints	Wakehurst	Newport
Waverley	Newport	Redfield	Convicts	Mosman	Hills
Petersham/Forest	UNSW	Savers	Kings Old Boys	Colleagues	Lindfield

All other clubs would fall into the Division 5 (one team) competition: Canterbury, Raptors, Menai, Irish, Wakehurst, SeaLice, Burraneer, Brothers, Balmain, Oatley, Dukes, Lane Cove.
If any of them could prove numbers for two team, they would potentially enter Division 4.
Radford Cup runs for the full season for those clubs as well.
The Meldrum Cup becomes a competition with a full home and away season for clubs with the extra teams from the change in structure. It would be considered as each club's next grade after their obligations.
Halligans Cup still runs for the non-regular games needed by clubs. I don't think it should attract an extra charge, as it should be about building club numbers.

I can't see Renegades on your divisional structure. Is it an error on your behalf, my eyesight or do you know something we don't?

 

[Pfitzy]

I can't see Renegades on your divisional structure. Is it an error on your behalf, my eyesight or do you know something we don't?

Look I *think* we'll be good for 2 Grades next year, but who knows what will change between now and then?

 

[BRUMBIEJACK]

Looking to next season, 8 teams per division has to be the end goal. See below for a possible layout that should keep most happy and minimise the weeks where a whole grade goes without games (see Div 2 4th Grade this season...). Thoughts??

Div 1	Div 2	Div 3	Div 4	Div 5a	Div 5b
4 + C	4 + C	3	2	1	1
Blue Mountains	Newport	Harlequins	Renegades	Menai	Oatley
Colleagues	UNSW	Briars	Sydney Harbour (1)	Irish	Balmain
Waverley	Hills	Iggies	Mac Uni	Wakehurst	Dukes
Hunters Hill	Lindfield	Beecroft	Chatswood	North Cronulla	Lane Cove
St Pats	Hawkesbury Valley (3)	Savers	Saints	Burraneer	Maccabi
Mosman	Barker (2)	Epping	Kings	Brothers	Convicts
Petersham	Knox	Redfield	Canterbury	Raptors	Colleagues 5/6 ?
Forest	Drummoyne	Blacktown	Hawkesbury Ag		Mosman 5/6 ?

 

[BRUMBIEJACK]

Think you would have to take geography into account for the Div 5 carve-up. Brothers and Wakehurst in a southern-Sydney dominated group doesn't work. Oatley is in the northern-Sydney based group. So, agree with the general idea however the closer the games are geographically the easier the clubs will find it to get a team there.

 

[Pfitzy]

Think you would have to take geography into account for the Div 5 carve-up. Brothers and Wakehurst in a southern-Sydney dominated group doesn't work. Oatley is in the northern-Sydney based group. So, agree with the general idea however the closer the games are geographically the easier the clubs will find it to get a team there.

That's true - one of the things that made the single-Grade comp easier on the northern beaches for years was proximity.

The longer term issue if you grow into 2 Grades and then are forced to travel anyway, and likely lose some guys because of it.

 

[Prodigy]

I can't see Renegades on your divisional structure. Is it an error on your behalf, my eyesight or do you know something we don't?

Oversight on my behalf. renegades in division 4 pushing Kings or Convicts down

 

[Mangoman]

Think you would have to take geography into account for the Div 5 carve-up. Brothers and Wakehurst in a southern-Sydney dominated group doesn't work. Oatley is in the northern-Sydney based group. So, agree with the general idea however the closer the games are geographically the easier the clubs will find it to get a team there.

While I agree that the geographical split works in theory, having teams more akin to a genuine 4th grade playing against teams who wouldn’t be out of place in 2nd grade (or partially in 1sts) becomes a farce. And that drives players away when you have a cricket score smacking you in the face each weekend rather than a chance at a competitive matchup.

 

[Funny]

Canterbury have pulled the pin on 1st grade again tomorrow. Sad to see them not get thru the year.

Congrats to Paul Hewett on playing his 400th game for Hawkesbury College tomorrow. Been a long season but the boys keep turning up and playing 1 1/2 or 2 full games every weekend. and that's all you can ask for!

 

[Funny]

While I agree that the geographical split works in theory, having teams more akin to a genuine 4th grade playing against teams who wouldn’t be out of place in 2nd grade (or partially in 1sts) becomes a farce. And that drives players away when you have a cricket score smacking you in the face each weekend rather than a chance at a competitive matchup.

100% agree.

 

[Prodigy]

Barker forfeiting second grade. Terrible news for our lower grades guys. Got stitched up by Uni last time we played them and now again.
Thanks Barker!

 

[qwerty123]

Barker forfeiting second grade. Terrible news for our lower grades guys. Got stitched up by Uni last time we played them and now again.
Thanks Barker!

I see that in everyone's predicted divisions for 2023 Barker is included in div 2. Surely this can't be allowed to happen if they can only field 1 grade and u21s at this point in the season.

 

[Mangoman]

I see that in everyone's predicted divisions for 2023 Barker is included in div 2. Surely this can't be allowed to happen if they can only field 1 grade and u21s at this point in the season.

Yep. Down to Div 3 they go. Probably put Briars in their place just based purely on playing stock numbers and the fact that they can field 3 grades and a colts where Quins are using Easts 4ths colts as their own.

 

[Mangoman]

A few points to take here;
- Was this when UNSW stacked their lower grades
- Was this when UNSW was playing dual registered players
- This game appeared to be at DP
- Newport appeared to be severely undermanned on that day which happens when you play away from home
- Would this result be different at Porters? - Yes

You may have beaten Newport - but were smashed by Valley. So that still doesnt win the Barraclough.

I never understood the concept behind “stacking” a lower grade when your higher grades are the ones winning...

 

[Pfitzy]

Oversight on my behalf. renegades in division 4 pushing Kings or Convicts down

*phew*!

Kings were fairly consistent with Halligan in 2020-1 and had a couple of cracks this year, but I think open borders have cut their numbers a little. They're a fairly young crew and the travel bug no doubt is upon them.

Convicts tend to go up and down in numbers with Bingham Cup. Similarly Maccabi with the Maccabiah Games. Jeez it'd be nice if the organisers of those two events took our season into consideration!

 

[Rucksmen]

Barker forfeiting second grade. Terrible news for our lower grades guys. Got stitched up by Uni last time we played them and now again.
Thanks Barker!

What happened Prodigy? Thought you had them picked for div 2 next year??

 

[BJT]

Latham Park claims another scalp from the looks of the cluch coverage.