The ARC 4 years on

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I enjoyed the ARC too and wish it could stay. I went to several of the games over here and loved it. However, if we are to have this competition again, a way will have to be found for it to not break the bank. Great concept, but unfortunately it could prove to be too expensive.

 

[120kg Winger]

The ARC is dead. No Zombie acts please. You cannot manufacture a fanbase or connection to a club. It didn't last because people had no connection to the teams.

Without going into the full detail (which does exist if anyone is really interested), it would be very easy to raise the standard of Rugby in Sydney initially and other jurisdictions later.

Make Sydney Premier Rugby a 10 team competition that has 1st Grade, Reserve Grade and Colts ONLY. Fewer clubs means a shorter season, which means more club games for Super Rugby Palyers. (Which 2 teams get dropped - complex issue too detailed for "Quick Reply")

These Clubs then enter into "feeder" agreements with Sydney Subbies Clubs. The good players being horded at clubs will be basically forced to move elswhere for game time. All the excess players will then fill the Suburban Rugby ranks, raising the skill level across Sydney.

Clubs will have more money for players and less cost for administration. Sponsorship and gate revenue would remain the same or improve as the quality of rugby improves. Commercial broadcasters would then be interested and revenue increases. Subbies Clubs will have better players plus supported costs as "feeder club". Better players creates greater fan support and sponsor opportunities.

There will eventually be a critical mass of quality players. This will lead them to move to either Brisbane, Canberra or Melbourne, depending on where will optimise their chances of playing top level rugby.

I agree that this is Sydney-centric. However with over 60 Clubs operating with varying degrees of success in Sydney it's the best place to start. Make Sydney Premier Rugby the 3rd tier by creating the environment for it to flourish. Don't try and wedge something into a space that could be easily (and cheaply) filled by an existing competition.

 

[Slim 293]

JON... is that you?

The problem is, nobody outside of Sydney club rugby supporters would be interested in that...

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'm not interested in that. Who would they discard?, it cannot be either Parra or Penrith. No one else will go silently into the night. We should be looking to emulate our SANZAR partners with our strutures, as it stands the club system will never adequately fill the space that desperately needs this. Some can stress the case for it all they like but if it hasn't happened yet, it's never going to. A ARC revisit is the only way forward.

As I mentioned, make the statement that the ARC will be re-launched post RWC, there will be 8 teams once again with geographical significance. The clubs are invited to participate in the franchises, no going it alone, in Sydney the three teams will be North Sydney, Western Sydney and Sydney. Make it as obvious as humanly possible exactly how you want it to pan out. Same for Brisbane, the ACT, Melbourne and Perth (must be included).

 

[wamberal]

We, too, were Rays fans. We went to a few of their matches, and still remember Kurtley's wonderful try down the left hand touchline at Gosford to beat us.


Apart from anything else, the ARC should never, ever have been started in a World Cup year. Not only was the playing strength diluted, but obviously a lot of hardcore fans were on the RWC tour. Plus, some of the the scheduling was really bad.

I live in hope that, one sweet day, something will rise from the ashes. In the meantime, why can't the Academies play each other? Or how about North Harbour vs South Harbour - or Sydney city origin vs NSW country origin?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The amount of support for the concept I have witnessed on this site and others including generally talking to Rugby people proves that the concept was and still is popular.

 

[Slim 293]

Someone at work the other day asked me what was the name of the competition played amongst Australian teams...

"Ummm... we don't have one..."

"Oh..."

 

[DPK]

Someone at work the other day asked me what was the name of the competition played amongst Australian teams...

"Ummm... we don't have one..."

"Oh..."

...Super 15? Derr.

 

[Slim 293]

...Super 15? Derr.

What they were asking was... what is the Australian rugby competition called... as in the competition where only Australian teams play each other...

 

[chasmac]

Wait until the changes in the S15 and the Tri nations go through before making decisions on the 3rd tier competition. There are plenty of options but they need to be considered once we see the effects of the longer Super season and the 4 nations. We do have an issue in terms of the skills gap between club and super which needs addressing though.

 

[120kg Winger]

JON... is that you?

The problem is, nobody outside of Sydney club rugby supporters would be interested in that...

Just like there was no interest in Rugby League before the Illawarra Steelers and Canberra Raiders came along. Just like nobody outside of Melbourne was interested in the VFL. Just like ther was no interest in Premier League Football in Australia before the A-League.

Eventually a national competition is the way to go. But like most ARC Believers, there's a denial about where the money would coming from? An administration costs money. A sports ground costs money. Equipment costs money. Marketing costs money. Travelling all around the country costs money. This is before a single player has been paid.

"Build it and they will come" is the dumbest and least cost effective sports administration strategy ever devised.

Rugby Union has to come to the realisation sooner or later that we are the little fish in this pond. The Sydney Clubs have existing infrastructure. They have easy logistical access to fans and resources. and....drum roll please.....they have the most obstinate governing bodies in existence. Quite simply, do something without them and they will shut you down.

Herein lies the major problem. You can sit here and talk on about the moral superiority of the ARC concept, but it won't make it happen. This is where you are in total agreement with the ARU. Think up a grand idea and then question the sanity of everyone else when it goes to $h!+.

Build on what you have. It costs a lot less and will be eminently more successful. Once this works there will be the following AND the money to expand the competition

 

[Slim 293]

You honestly believe Queensland and Canberra rugby fans will go for that?

Not a chance...

The other codes expanded their teams many years ago...

You can't have Australian rugby go backwards NOW in order to go forwards...

It's a ridiculous idea...

"Hey guys, we're going to expand the competition by not expanding the competition... then you can join in later on... so say goodbye to your players"

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Watching what was a rather entertaining Shute Shield game this afternoon with Eastwood conducting a clinic against Easts I could not stop thinking 'imagine if we could resurrect the ARC based along regional divisions within the city'. While the last couple of weeks of the SS have been entertaining just imagine how good it could be with the best players concentrated in only three teams. It must be revisited, it could provide us with a product that would be able to eventually compete with League.

 

[Scarfman]

Just like there was no interest in Rugby League before the Illawarra Steelers and Canberra Raiders came along. Just like nobody outside of Melbourne was interested in the VFL. Just like ther was no interest in Premier League Football in Australia before the A-League.

Eventually a national competition is the way to go. But like most ARC Believers, there's a denial about where the money would coming from? An administration costs money. A sports ground costs money. Equipment costs money. Marketing costs money. Travelling all around the country costs money. This is before a single player has been paid.

"Build it and they will come" is the dumbest and least cost effective sports administration strategy ever devised.

Rugby Union has to come to the realisation sooner or later that we are the little fish in this pond. The Sydney Clubs have existing infrastructure. They have easy logistical access to fans and resources. and....drum roll please.....they have the most obstinate governing bodies in existence. Quite simply, do something without them and they will shut you down.

Herein lies the major problem. You can sit here and talk on about the moral superiority of the ARC concept, but it won't make it happen. This is where you are in total agreement with the ARU. Think up a grand idea and then question the sanity of everyone else when it goes to $h!+.

Build on what you have. It costs a lot less and will be eminently more successful. Once this works there will be the following AND the money to expand the competition

In order to make a national soccer competition successful JON had to shitcan all existing structures and start again. Sometimes the existing structures are part of the problem.

 

[Bruce Ross]

In order to make a national soccer competition successful JON had to shitcan all existing structures and start again. Sometimes the existing structures are part of the problem.

What have you been smoking, Scarfie? Or were you out in the sun without your hat again?

 

[Scarfman]

Hats are for the weak.

Bruce, you've been on fire recently so I'll cut you some slack. You tell me what part of the Football Australia story you don't know about and I'll fill you in.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I can't think of any part of the Football Australia story that I have any particular interest in, Scarfie. My comment related to what I took to be an implication that "shitcan[ning] all existing structures" was something that the ARU should consider copying in order to create a national competition.

 

[Langthorne]

There was a lot of shit to can in Australian football. I'm not sure they can be compared really. Football was (is) plagued by dodgy financial dealings due to the huge profitability of the sport and the lucrative rewards offered by the transfer market. It also had (in Australia) a long history of clubs being run along national/cultural lines. Rugby is mostly supported by volunteers on a not for profit basis. Even considering 'shit canning' those sorts of structures should be done very carefully.

I would agree that strong clubs are the way forward for a national domestic competition. Start with some kind of knock out competition (that runs in conjunction with the existing comps) on the east coast and go from there. Support clubs at all levels as they are the lifeblood of the sport (in terms of players and support).

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

My main issue is that with 'strong' clubs emerging others will envitably fall by the wayside. That's not necessarily a bad thing either, but its more than likely two of those clubs will be in the City's West which is a very bad thing. Under my ideal setup the clubs wouldn't lose their position of importance. As I have stated they would all share ownership of a respective franchise. North Harbour/Sydney/ would be a partnership of Norths, Gordon, Manly and Warringah, West Syd - Eastwood, Parra, Penrith and Harbour and of course Syd - Uni, Wicks, Easts and Souths. They determine the best possible team using the current 1st grade teams as their talent pool. All three would produce quality teams.

Furthermore, this model would be enforced in Brisbane (5 clubs to a franchise), ACT (All), Vic (All) and WA (All). This means they are all invested in the teams and remain integral to the development pathway. They would actively recruit talent to their club.The Shute Shield would still run, it may require some re-scheduling but would still be used as trial mechanism for players. The ARC could run concurrently to the ITM Cup. My model at least intially would be more of a representative championship.

 

[Scarfman]

So, you want the ARC model, but instead of being called Sydney Fleet, they'll be called Sydney Uni.

I'm not sure I understand the advantages of this model.