The Israel Folau saga

[wamberal]

The Churches have also influenced society in the past and also had an impact on the SSM vote, the only difference between the Church and those big bag corporations is, one is exempt from paying taxes the other contributes to society.

That is a bit unfair. Some faith communities do a lot of good work. The Uniting Church, for example (when it was the Methodist Church) introduced the Blue Nursing service to Queensland. The Flying Doctor service was set up by the Reverend John Flynn, a Presbyterian minister. These are just a couple out of many, many examples.


Google "Wayside Chapel". Or the "safe injecting room" at Kings Cross.

 

[Quick Hands]

That is not a result of his termination at all. That is a direct result of his actions.

No other employer is saying they won't employ him because RA sacked him. They're saying his values and actions are not compatible with their organisations and that he places his religion above any potential employers commercial values.

So again, RA have no responsibilities for Izzy's inability to find suitable employment elsewhere

Well that’s your view. You may end up being correct but I think you should consider the possibility that courts don’t necessarily apply simplistic and absolute judgements to highly complex cases.

Before it gets to any of that FWA would need to make a determination that RA acted unlawfully in terminating Folau’s employment.

If RA are held to have acted unlawfully then it’s usual for the courts to consider damages on the basis that the unlawful conduct of one party has caused reputational damage to another.

 

[Show-n-go]

Who said I would get zero results? Not me.
How many hits do you get if you google the two issues separately?

Let’s just agree that wasn’t your strongest argument and you can focus on some of your other points that have merit

 

[Aurelius]

The Churches have also influenced society in the past and also had an impact on the SSM vote, the only difference between the Church and those big bag corporations is, one is exempt from paying taxes the other contributes to society.

Look, I'm an agnostic who's received a strictly secular upbringing, but as someone who like millions of other Australians over the years received an excellent education in a Christian school, I know that's not only a cheap shot and strictly unnecessary, but just flat-out untrue.

 

[Aurelius]

Do you really think that people vote or think the way they do because a corporation has a particular view on it? Really? If you do you must think that we are all gormless morons.

You know there's a whole industry set up around the premise that corporations can persuade the public to adopt certain behaviours and attitudes? And a separate industry that allows corporations to influence government decision-making?

Maybe it is all a load of rubbish, but it's rubbish that the business community spends billions on every year so they obviously think they can affect what people do.

 

[Sully]

No, it's usually when supporters of Folau argue too strongly.

Nope it's when it goes around in circles continuously with out anyone making a point.

 

[Quick Hands]

That is a bit unfair. Some faith communities do a lot of good work. The Uniting Church, for example (when it was the Methodist Church) introduced the Blue Nursing service to Queensland. The Flying Doctor service was set up by the Reverend John Flynn, a Presbyterian minister. These are just a couple out of many, many examples.


Google "Wayside Chapel". Or the "safe injecting room" at Kings Cross.

Or Loaves and Fishes at Ashfield Uniting Church. Free lunch every day for the needy.

 

[Gnostic]

Curious Gnostic, why is this simply RA's fault and not Israel's or what is appearing more and more clearer by the day, Folau Senior who is pulling the strings behind the scenes.

Management has the responsibility to have robust systems in place to deal with business situations. The flaws in this system became very apparent during the Beale fiasco. No competent administration would have signed further contracts under the EBA that allowed that ridiculous system.​

No these things aside as obviously too technical and too complex for the idiots like Clyne to deal with, lets not forget the vast success that Clyne had in his previous role for a moment. No lets consider when this shit storm broke, instead of saying Folau has been stood down pending a full investigation and the process which is set out under afore mentioned EBA will be undertaken. No comments about the morality need to be made, no Captains or Coaches or other players paraded or comments sought or given. Just undertake the process quickly, efficiently and DO NOT pre-adjudicate the matter. Not hard and at the very least is what should be required by a professional management group.

 

[Quick Hands]

Sure, you have no clue either so don’t speculate.

No, I’m clearly saying that QANTAS don’t want their brand associated with controversy, social standards dictate Folaus comments extremely controversial.I haven’t commented on Emirates because I’m not the one dictating what’s controversial and what isn’t, where’s the thousands of articles of controversy on the issue? like I said your issue is with social standards not the CEO of a company.

I thought that discussion regarding Qantas and it’s unfortunate CEO were strictly verboten. I’d love to tee off on this but I’ll refrain.

 

[Adam84]

I thought that discussion regarding Qantas and it’s unfortunate CEO were strictly verboten. I’d love to tee off on this but I’ll refrain.

in line with the context of my post, your issue is with social standards and not an individual CEO, there’s no need to discuss him the board he represents or the company he works for.

 

[Adam84]

Let’s just agree that wasn’t your strongest argument and you can focus on some of your other points that have merit

it’s a simple question, what has stirred more controversy, Folau and his comments or an airline partnership?
its a pillar of your argument, yet like it or hate it, social standards set corporate agendas..

 

[Forcefield]

That is a bit unfair. Some faith communities do a lot of good work. The Uniting Church, for example (when it was the Methodist Church) introduced the Blue Nursing service to Queensland. The Flying Doctor service was set up by the Reverend John Flynn, a Presbyterian minister. These are just a couple out of many, many examples.


Google "Wayside Chapel". Or the "safe injecting room" at Kings Cross.

I know this is completely inappropriate but what the hell- The Blue Nursing Service sounds like it would make a great erotic film.

 

[Ignoto]

Look, I'm an agnostic who's received a strictly secular upbringing, but as someone who like millions of other Australians over the years received an excellent education in a Christian school, I know that's not only a cheap shot and strictly unnecessary, but just flat-out untrue.

I'll accept its a cheap shot, but quite frankly, I'm over giving them an easy ride after how much damage they've caused. But, anyway, I think you've proved the point, that Churches through their reach at an early age have been able to shape societies stance on so many issues for generations. It's the same argument being made against corporations.

Management has the responsibility to have robust systems in place to deal with business situations. The flaws in this system became very apparent during the Beale fiasco. No competent administration would have signed further contracts under the EBA that allowed that ridiculous system.

Sure, RA has a number of failings and I won't disagree with any of that. But in this instance, it's been reported that Folau admitted to knowing exactly what he posted would cause an issue. I won't put the blame of this shitshow solely at RA's footsteps, just yet anyway. Ultimately, Folau and his father deserve to bear the brunt of their own actions.

 

[Gnostic]

I'll accept its a cheap shot, but quite frankly, I'm over giving them an easy ride after how much damage they've caused. But, anyway, I think you've proved the point, that Churches through their reach at an early age have been able to shape societies stance on so many issues for generations. It's the same argument being made against corporations.

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Like it or not the Judeo-Christian belief system is the basis for all of western society. After the fall of the Western Roman Empire it has been the basis of the rise (and fall with a Dark Age, then rise again) of the Western world. It has provided the environment for the scientific and social advances we have made since that time. Sure it has massive failings, some huge ones, but if you want to undermine the whole basis of society and throw it out better have something to replace it. Secularism won't do it as it doesn't fit with the freedoms we have come to regard as a right, that requires laws enacted by consent under the system built that judeo-christain system, remove the consent and rule must be maintained by force, and that in itself restrains those freedoms we are talking about.

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Sure, RA has a number of failings and I won't disagree with any of that. But in this instance, it's been reported that Folau admitted to knowing exactly what he posted would cause an issue. I won't put the blame of this shitshow solely at RA's footsteps, just yet anyway. Ultimately, Folau and his father deserve to bear the brunt of their own actions.

I trust no reports, and if you go back and read what I actually posted it doesn't matter if its about the shit show around Folau or some other problem.

I do find it very interesting that a repeat offender in Tolu Latu is back on the playing roster despite being charged with matters now before the court.

 

[Gnostic]

Interesting to hear the Fox Commentators speak about Folau emailing the RA board and Chair raising issues about breaches of confidentially. Very interesting because the fact that these emails themselves have obviously been leaked and RA employee Kafer had the readily prepared speech about the morality and integrity of Folau and his often quoted promise to walk away if he was damaging the game.

There is no defence for Folau on this point, he has proved himself faithless on this point and his word has not been his bond, but then hypocrisy is a hallmark of the fundamentalist religious mind. Nobody should be surprised, and if asked he'll have some justification for it I'm sure, they always do.

I do have a problem however with the leaking of confidential information, and that could have very serious repercussions for RA.

 

[Sully]

Kafer is not an RA employee.

 

[Sully]

Also seems they got theirinformation from a media report.

 

[Sully]

RA statement tonight.

STATEMENT REGARDING ISRAEL FOLAU
JUNE 8, 2019
Rugby Australia has issued the following statement after a media report this evening contained a letter issued by Israel Folau to the Rugby Australia Board.

"While we accept that a PR firm has been engaged to coordinate a media campaign to promote the legal action taken against Rugby Australia, we are disappointed that this campaign is impacting on the work done by the thousands of volunteers who are delivering great experiences for the Rugby community and also that it has taken the focus away from a crucial Australian Super Rugby derby, being played by Israel's former team tonight.

"Rugby Australia has acted with complete professionalism and integrity at all times through the process in which Mr Folau was found by an independent three-member tribunal panel to have made multiple, serious breaches of the Professional Players Code of Conduct.

"While we will continue to respond to any legal action as required and will continue to defend the values that underpin our game and the work done by the hard working volunteers, we will not engage in a running media commentary."

 

[Gnostic]

Kafer is not an RA employee.

Has Kafer resigned his RA position as a Director of Elite Coaching Development or whatever he was appointed to in 2017?​

 

[Sully]

Sounds familiar.
https://www.couriermail.com.au/spor...l/news-story/0b3079f984e2b39e16c623e4932d4012

Israel Folau says he is hurt by ARL's bullying treatment of him over switch to AFL

AFL-BOUND superstar Israel Folau last night revealed he has been hurt by the Australian Rugby League's bullying treatment of him.
He also said his family's initial reaction is to ensure he never plays the sport again.