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The Israel Folau saga

Discussion in 'Rugby Discussion' started by The torpedo, Apr 10, 2019.

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  1. Ignoto Alan Cameron (40)

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  2. Slim 293 Jason Little (69)

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    Yeah, nah.....

    The contractual stuff was discussed on the last page so I won’t go over that again.....

    RA attempted to contact Folau following the tweets...

    He went MIA....

    RA then issued a statement indicating their intention to terminate their contract, and since then have been following the protocols.

    They’ve done everything by the book.
    Derpus likes this.
  3. Adam84 Bill McLean (32)

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    Don’t twist my words like this, at no point did I reduce youth suicide to just a few lines in an internet post.

    I pointed out that the suicide rate in gay youth is a statistical outlier and over represented, rather then twisting my words how about you start addressing the issue and facing up to the fact that social pressure and stigma is a significant factor in this statistic. We need to stop telling young gay youth that what they are, who they are, is wrong or something to be embarrassed or ashamed of. That’s why Rugby Australia has an Inclusiveness Policy, to stamp out discrimination and homophobia, it’s also why folau has no spot in the code.
  4. gel Chilla Wilson (44)

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    Wrong.
  5. Slim 293 Jason Little (69)

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    Oh, OK!!!
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  6. RugbyReg Stirling Mortlock (74)

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    so? This is the RA Code of Conduct. Which starts with the very words:

    "Rugby AU is committed to promoting and strengthening the positive image of Rugby and its Participants in Australia. To do so, we all need to be committed to living our core values of Passion, Integrity, Discipline, Respect and Teamwork.

    This Code aims to ensure that Rugby Australia’s core values, good reputation and positive behaviours are maintained by its players, coaches, administrators, volunteers, parents and spectators by providing a simple set of rules that assist in delivering a safe, fair and inclusive environment for all.

    This Code also seeks to deter conduct that could damage the game of Rugby by impairing public confidence in the honest and orderly conduct of matches and competitions or in the integrity and good character of Participants."
  7. Merrow Bill McLean (32)

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    Pretty sure that if the teenager was in a confused headspace, which is highly likely, comments such as Folau’s could be pretty damaging actually. Have a listen to the Rugby Ruckus podcast from the weekend, where they were talking to someone that struggled to come out in as gay in the rugby community and see if you still think the same way.
  8. I like to watch Simon Poidevin (60)

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    More than that, there’s zero chance Raelene pumped out that statement without getting legal advice.


    Here’s an interesting article about it the issue.

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/rug...egal-and-moral-minefield-20190417-p51f3m.html
    Slim 293 likes this.
  9. The_Brown_Hornet David Codey (61)

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    Yeah don't think Genia could have been clearer about that. Izzy will likely never play for Australia again, at least while the current leadership team are in place. This could actually galvanise the group in an odd way.
  10. gel Chilla Wilson (44)

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    That's all you deserve. I am happy to discuss with others.
  11. Kenny Powers Ted Thorn (20)

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    Here is an interesting one FitzSimons and Alan Jones actually work for the same corporate group, they are work colleagues.

    Peter if anyone climbed into their work colleague as you do to Alan Jones in a public forum they would be terminated as well. That's the media bubble for you and their lack of self awareness.

    (PS. I am sure Alan Jones gives as good as he gets.)
    Aurelius and The Honey Badger like this.
  12. Rebelsfan Fred Wood (13)

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    I am very sad for the gay youth who feel suicidal. I have looked up the statistics and according to https://lgbtihealth.org.au/statistics/ gay youth are five times more likely to commit suicide. The site states that these young people are living healthy and happy lives. There is an argument to suggest that these people suffer from some mental illness - not related to their gayness - but coincidentally - and this could quite likely be the cause of the high rate. I don't think Izzy's comments contribute to mental illness.
  13. KOB1987 Paul McLean (56)

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    That article is where I'm at on the issue and is why I'm stepping aside from the conversation. It's a minefield.

    Just a few points before I do:
    - re Cheika saying he won't pick Folau again, you need to watch the interview to see the context of that comment.
    - I want to see the substance of his defence before passing judgement and calling him a hypocrite.
    - There appears to be very little if any condemnation of him from the actual gay community. Most of it seems to be coming from self appointed spokespersons, mainly left wing activists and news outlets. I'm hearing the general consensus is that the average gay could give a flying f*** about his religion's views.
    - of course Genia, Hooper etc have to be critical of his actions. They all also say it's out of character.

    Later #2.
  14. RebelYell Jim Clark (26)

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    Not having a go mate. Just explaining that it isn't the Code of Conduct under which Israel's case will be heard.
  15. tragic Vay Wilson (31)

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    Interesting isn’t it
    That’s been my observation as well - and the basis behind my comments about being offended on behalf of others and choosing which subgroup is most worthy of that outrage.
    Seems ironic when some prominent members of that minority group themselves don’t take issue (see link below)
    Guess there is two sides to every argument after all.

    https://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby...s/news-story/fc021b31d9e379b8b26f2cedb20c5a27
    todd4, Aurelius and KOB1987 like this.
  16. MarkJ Charlie Fox (21)

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    I suspect Tim Wilson would represent a minority view in that ‘minority group’. And IPA members like him must be tying themselves in ideological knots over this one, normally they’re all for the rights of an employer to sack a worker
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  17. Braveheart81 Rocky Elsom (76)

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    On those two points, I certainly got the impression from Cheika that it wasn't a completely closed case in terms of being able to pick Folau again. If the situation changed and he was confident that Folau would be 100% with the team and not causing issues like this then he could be picked again (those words weren't said but that's my impression).

    Obviously whether or not you could trust that to be the case is another story entirely.

    On the second one, I have seen comments from various people on twitter that are vocal advocates of marriage equality etc. from when the story first broke that it was a welcome situation that for once they didn't have to take the fight up themselves to call out Folau's comments and demand action.

    In terms of advancing on this issue I think it is an important milestone where some self-moderation can take place rather than relying on the wronged party to show that whatever happened caused harm before there is acceptance that something was inappropriate.
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  18. barbarian Michael Lynagh (62)

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    I'm uncomfortable with the views of some on here that have said 'young gay teens will be OK, they should just ignore him like I have'.

    Telling a historically disenfranchised group they should just 'brush it off' because it didn't offend you is not the best way to approach this situation IMO.

    The thing is, I don't really know how these comments would affect those people. I'm not one of them, nor do I really know any. We have seen some evidence that it does cause problems (eg the bloke on the Rugby Ruckus), and I'm happy to give those people the benefit of the doubt here, rather than the words of a few cowboys on an internet forum.
    .
  19. Derpus Paul McLean (56)

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    Personally, i don't think that's as bad as saying 'hey these gay people aren't actually even offended' based on, presumably, a cursory glance at social media.
  20. Ignoto Alan Cameron (40)

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    Yet there are plenty of people in the Rugby community who have explicitly said the opposite;

    James Haskell - https://external-preview.redd.it/5y...bp&s=fcdcf374ac5a954a663167b275579d9a986bc453

    Nigel Owens - https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...hurtful-comments-says-gay-referee-nigel-owens

    The International Gay Rugby - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...welcomes-response-israel-folau-billy-vunipola
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