The Wallabies Thread

[gel]

@froggy read what bob dwyer said about Phipps passing.

Read what mark Ella has written about Australia's skills this year.

@cyclopath: people in a competitive environment who choose to not improve are electing to lose.

If you are happy with the standard of play by the Australian rugby players at the moment, then I am glad for you. at the moment, I'm not because I think a lot of our players are playing like shite and I can't figure out why they don't fix it themselves.

I

 

[Froggy]

Read what I said about Phipps passing, I didn't at any stage (nor did many others) say it was good enough.
To go from there to say they aren't trying to improve, or are electing to lose is a mindless and quite offensive comment.
I don't know whether you've ever been to or even seen a representative training regime, but go and have a look at one and then tell me these people aren't trying to improve, and as to 'electing to lose' barely warrants a response.

 

[gel]

Oh come off it with taking offence on behalf of the players - that's just taking the SJW bullshit to a whole other level.

Their skills this year are significantly worse than in previous years.

If they are PRACTICING their hardest and this year's drivel is the best they can do, then how the hell have the somehow played infinitely better in previous seasons?

So many blame coaching staff and structures, but do these players do the extras themselves? Do they pay for a private coach to work on their core deficiencies in their spare time the way any normal person might in their own chosen profession? Do they not leave the training paddock until every one of their passes knocks the ball off the tee, and then do it again the next day? Or their box kicks, or kicks for touch? So many basics are just not there at the moment from players that should be (and were) better.

They aren't trying their hardest. It's obvious.

 

[gel]

And I'll go by the empty seats, the downgrading of the springbok seats at Lang park and the low ratings numbers over a couple of forum posts as evidence of whose right or not.

Our guys are not playing well and it's bad to watch.

 

[fatprop]

Sorry, not being a smart arse, but I don't get that. These issues worsen the problem, and yes, the do increase the difficulty for a half to get away a quick and effective pass, but the quality of Phipps pass is not due to someone else's short comings. His passing quality is sub par for a professional rugby half. Regardless of how quickly he gets to the ruck or how fit he is.

Unfortunately, he is still the best we have at present.

His pass can be an issue, I am just reminding those with short attention spans to consider when it often becomes that issue.

It is a lot like the blame game with props, "they can't scrummage", "he is shit" often neglects to consider the lock's work, the backrows meerkatting and what the opposition is doing.

Or Hookers throwing, without taking into account the call, the lifters, the jumpers and/or the opposition.

Or when a 10 throws a hospital pass where none of the backs are in motion and working off the ball to create any doubt

Rugby is a team game and there will always be contributing issues.

In the past we have had complaints about Genia, Greegan etc for being too slow to clear and/or taking too many steps.

When did that happen?

When ball was slow\messy and receivers aren't ready. The outcome when that happens to Phipps is a less than average but clearly faster clearance.

 

[cyclopath]

@froggy read what bob dwyer said about Phipps passing.

Read what mark Ella has written about Australia's skills this year.

@cyclopath: people in a competitive environment who choose to not improve are electing to lose.

If you are happy with the standard of play by the Australian rugby players at the moment, then I am glad for you. at the moment, I'm not because I think a lot of our players are playing like shite and I can't figure out why they don't fix it themselves.

I

Did I say that? Stop putting words in peoples' posts that aren't there.

 

[gel]

Oh come off it.

@fatprop is defending Phipps just one post above yours with "it's other people's fault". Ignores the fact there are clearly many examples where he has passed poorly when there's been no pressure (out scored by Rod Davies with static ball ffs even!).

There is simply no excuse for him to be so poor at this.

He could fix it, and clearly hasn't. It accepting mediocrity.

 

[fatprop]

Oh come off it.

@fatprop is defending Phipps just one post above yours with "it's other people's fault". Ignores the fact there are clearly many examples where he has passed poorly when there's been no pressure (out scored by Rod Davies with static ball ffs even!).

There is simply no excuse for him to be so poor at this.

He could fix it, and clearly hasn't. It accepting mediocrity.

when "nuance" is only read as "excuse"

 

[gel]

"When did that happen?

When ball was slow\messy and receivers aren't ready. The outcome when that happens to Phipps is a less than average but clearly faster clearance."

^^^^That is not nuance.

 

[fatprop]

"When did that happen?

When ball was slow\messy and receivers aren't ready. The outcome when that happens to Phipps is a less than average but clearly faster clearance."

^^^^That is not nuance.

For your homework, try watching the Aus/eng games again and note Phipp's pass deteriorate as the eng pack dominates the breakdown on our ball

They made the ball a mess and that is generally when his pass gets worse

Should he be more effective, sure, but we also should be looking at some of issues leading up to it.

We are sending less units to each ruck, to have more at the next, but if those fewer units aren't really accurate it spirals to shit. More players rush in to clean out, that leads to fewer at the next phase, leading to messier rucks etc etc



Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Sauron]

For your homework, try watching the Aus/eng games again and note Phipp's pass deteriorate as the eng pack dominates the breakdown on our ball

They made the ball a mess and that is generally when his pass gets worse

Should he be more effective, sure, but we also should be looking at some of issues leading up to it.

We are sending less units to each ruck, to have more at the next, but if those fewer units aren't really accurate it spirals to shit. More players rush in to clean out, that leads to fewer at the next phase, leading to messier rucks etc etc



Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Phipp's pass gets worse when he's under more pressure, but this season it's quite often shithouse to begin with.

Surely it's the halfback's job to avoid putting his backline under pressure by passing before they're ready? Of course, he can be helped by backs working harder to get into position, and forwards protecting the ball better, but Phipps needs to shoulder plenty of the blame. He's hardly the only halfback that has to pass competently under pressure, and he's definitely the worst halfback in the top 5 rugby nations at doing so. Something is failing in his skills development.

 

[Chronicle]

The only myth about Phipps is that it is just his passing which is an issue. He makes several mistakes every game wether being caught at the breakdown inaccurate passing muffed kicks or brain snaps like the Bledisloe in Sydney last year. Whilst his speed to breakdown is praised no one mentions the number of times he is missing at the breakdown or the times his two step passing routine puts his receivers under pressure from the defensive line. IMO he is not the best halfback in Australia there are several better who are not given the opportunities Phipps continues to be given. Yes this is the perogative of the coach and selectors but it is a dangerous message to send the playing group when you are not succeeding.

 

[Scrubber2050]

There is no question players attempt play to the best of their ability each week. To say otherwise is ludicrous.

Some players have higher natural skill levels than others. These guys have made it to the top and obviously have a certain level of skill. Can it be improved - absolutely.

The secret is identifying the deficiencies of each player and improving upon it with coaches specialising in that area of deficiency.

 

[Viking]

There is no question players attempt play to the best of their ability each week. To say otherwise is ludicrous.

Some players have higher natural skill levels than others. These guys have made it to the top and obviously have a certain level of skill. Can it be improved - absolutely.

The secret is identifying the deficiencies of each player and improving upon it with coaches specialising in that area of deficiency.

All true Scrubber but I think most posters are just shocked at the lack of basic skills in certain areas and are attempting to justify this by unfairly criticising their effort.

Phipps the prime example. To be fair, it is bizarre a half-back who has been a half-back all his career struggles to pass the ball. He probably passes the ball hundreds of times, if not thousands of times a week.

It's hard to comprehend to be honest. So I understand where many posters are coming from by criticising their effort, because these deficiencies are bloody hard to explain.

A flyhalf who can't kick, a half-back who can't pass, a winger who struggles to beat a man 1v1. And these are first choice international players - What the hell is going on?

 

[Joe King]

My impression is that Phipps always played super whenever he use to come off the bench for the Wallabies. And he does have moments of super play even now. So maybe the issue for him is he's just not an 80 minute player. Matt Rogers use to be like that. A real game-breaker when he came off the bench, but not so good when they tried to play him for the whole game.

Maybe we'd get the best out of Phipps if he only played for 40 or so minutes rather than 80. Just a thought.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Scrubber, seems there's no shortage of players' deficiencies being identified on GAGR, (by me as well). It seems to be that the coaching staff have difficulty with either identifying those deficiencies or in taking remedial action, because in most cases the deficiencies persist. Just look at the Wallabies' consistently poor kicking games over many years. We've all identified the problem but until now there has been no noticeable improvement. Hopefully, Mick Byrne will make a difference over the next year or so leading towards the 2019 RWC.

Phipps' passing game is also in this category imo. It has been an identified problem since he started at Wallaby level, but hasn't shown any improvement with more tests played. And I am in full agreement with Chronicle's observation too that he misses a lot of rucks. Too many times the ball is lying at the back of the ruck waiting for him but mostly just gets picked up by the opposition. If he does get there, he has put a hell of a lot of pressure on himself by his late arrival. He is the incumbent No 9, and in my view there is no real challenger to him atm (remember all the criticism Will Genia was receiving before he left for O/S for taking backward steps from the ruck before releasing the ball - he will need to show that he has got that aspect out of his game before we can say he should replace NP). So it is really up to Phipps and the coaches to do something about his passing game.

 

[Viking]

My impression is that Phipps always played super whenever he use to come off the bench for the Wallabies. And he does have moments of super play even now. So maybe the issue for him is he's just not an 80 minute player. Matt Rogers use to be like that. A real game-breaker when he came off the bench, but not so good when they tried to play him for the whole game.

Maybe we'd get the best out of Phipps if he only played for 40 or so minutes rather than 80. Just a thought.

I think his RWC performances conflict with your theory. He was horrible off the bench. Worst I've ever seen him. Refer to the England match.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Jeez I feel for Phipps after he has been reamed out with a large and very rough Pineapple on here.

I reckon for a Tah )) he's pretty good overall, He has a skill that needs improvement.

Don't the rest of them as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Would be interesting if the microscope or blow torch was applied to Hooper (though I suppose it already has to a degree), Pocock, Folau, FARDY, TK, Moore etc etc etc in respect of one aspect of their play.

 

[Sully]

Okay guys just calm down a little.
Yes Phipps hasn't the best pass around but that is fixable and the ARU have seen that skills aren't as good as they could be and found someone to improve them.
Yes Phipps misses some rucks but if you look a little harder you'll find it's usually when someone has tackled or held him up to intentionally stop him from doing that. A better thought would be why are we waiting for the half back to arrive when their are a dozen other players who could pick the ball up and do something with it.
Yes Phipps has brain fades in the second half of the game. So why is he still there when we all know it happens? We have replacements. Good replacements so why not use them.
There are a lot of things that can be improved with how we play so lets not destroy players for things that are much wider issues.

 

[Viking]

Whatever happened to that "Wallabies Positive" thread.