The Wallabies Thread

[Derpus]

Sorry but anyone who thinks that constantly shuffling players around in their defensive positions has no impact or isn’t the cause of quite a number of the Wallabies defensive issues is simply wrong. You can have any defensive structure you like, but if the players don’t trust the players inside or outside of them, or aren’t aware how those players inside of outside of them are going to move or react then it creates indecisiveness, even a fraction of indecision at test level creates space for the opposition. It’s these fractions of a second which sting the wallabies.

The best defenders in the world are able to do so because of their ability to read body language, not just of the opposition but their own teammates. Communications only goes so far, body language communicates so much more, this is something Kuridrani is good at.

This is why combinations and time together is critical, because it allows players to learn that body language and understand their strengths and weaknesses. Knowing whether to push in to support a player or stay out wide and mark the outside player is down to that understanding between the players and confidence in their own role.

Again i don't think this is incompatible with fatprops point. But anyways, yer we are pretty bad at the defending in an era where almost every other team is good at it.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[wamberal]

Bring Muggo back!!!!!

Or on a more serious note, what about Phil Blake? He did some really good stuff when he coached the Marlins???

 

[fatprop]

Sorry but anyone who thinks that constantly shuffling players around in their defensive positions has no impact or isn’t the cause of quite a number of the Wallabies defensive issues is simply wrong. You can have any defensive structure you like, but if the players don’t trust the players inside or outside of them, or aren’t aware how those players inside of outside of them are going to move or react then it creates indecisiveness, even a fraction of indecision at test level creates space for the opposition. It’s these fractions of a second which sting the wallabies.

The best defenders in the world are able to do so because of their ability to read body language, not just of the opposition but their own teammates. Communications only goes so far, body language communicates so much more, this is something Kuridrani is good at.

This is why combinations and time together is critical, because it allows players to learn that body language and understand their strengths and weaknesses. Knowing whether to push in to support a player or stay out wide and mark the outside player is down to that understanding between the players and confidence in their own role.

Ok, so in a match how often are players in the same position? All I have said is that the defensive alignments are fluid in phase play. There maybe general positioning, but most of the time it is fill a whole and trust the guys around you; and when you get a chance get back to your area. All while the attacking side is hunting those mismatches

 

[Up the Guts]

Part of the problem with the defensive reshuffle is that you hide players at the expense of developing their defence. Foley has never been that bad a defender for a 10, he's probably better than Barrett and unlike Cooper and Beale doesn't go high and try to wrap players up. I know we shift our 10 back for kicking as well as for defensive purposes but if Foley had been made to defend in the line it's likely his defence would have been worked on and he'd now be a passable frontline defender.

Perhaps too when Cooper burst onto the scene more needed to be worked on in terms of their defence as well. Cooper has had the same problem with going too high all his career and you can't help but feel that part of the reason it hasn't been improved is because we've just shuffled him out of the frontline rather than worked on his tackling technique. Even if we'd only been able to improve Quade's defence to the sort of level Foley is at today he probably would have played a lot more tests for the Wallabies.

 

[Derpus]

Ok, so in a match how often are players in the same position? All I have said is that the defensive alignments are fluid in phase play. There maybe general positioning, but most of the time it is fill a whole and trust the guys around you; and when you get a chance get back to your area. All while the attacking side is hunting those mismatches

I suppose some positions are fairly consistent, wingers for example. Mostly not though.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Derpus]

Part of the problem with the defensive reshuffle is that you hide players at the expense of developing their defence. Foley has never been that bad a defender for a 10, he's probably better than Barrett and unlike Cooper and Beale doesn't go high and try to wrap players up. I know we shift our 10 back for kicking as well as for defensive purposes but if Foley had been made to defend in the line it's likely his defence would have been worked on and he'd now be a passable frontline defender.

Perhaps too when Cooper burst onto the scene more needed to be worked on in terms of their defence as well. Cooper has had the same problem with going too high all his career and you can't help but feel that part of the reason it hasn't been improved is because we've just shuffled him out of the frontline rather than worked on his tackling technique. Even if we'd only been able to improve Quade's defence to the sort of level Foley is at today he probably would have played a lot more tests for the Wallabies.

The only 10 who plays for a top 5/6 team who can actually defend effectively that i can think of is Farrell. And he's basically a 12 now anyway.
Jantjies, Sopoaga, Barrett, Ford, Sexton etc are all pretty small/shit at defending.

 

[fatprop]

I suppose some positions are fairly consistent, wingers for example. Mostly not though.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Even they move in the pendulum, we often see Folau on the openside wing

 

[fatprop]

Part of the problem with the defensive reshuffle is that you hide players at the expense of developing their defence. Foley has never been that bad a defender for a 10, he's probably better than Barrett and unlike Cooper and Beale doesn't go high and try to wrap players up. I know we shift our 10 back for kicking as well as for defensive purposes but if Foley had been made to defend in the line it's likely his defence would have been worked on and he'd now be a passable frontline defender.

Perhaps too when Cooper burst onto the scene more needed to be worked on in terms of their defence as well. Cooper has had the same problem with going too high all his career and you can't help but feel that part of the reason it hasn't been improved is because we've just shuffled him out of the frontline rather than worked on his tackling technique. Even if we'd only been able to improve Quade's defence to the sort of level Foley is at today he probably would have played a lot more tests for the Wallabies.

They all need work at the moment, but this tackling stuff should have been worked out in the sand pits at Super Rugby training years ago, not in Wob camp

 

[Derpus]

Even they move in the pendulum, we often see Folau on the openside wing

How good is that pendulum video. Folau is not great at defending the openside wing eh.

 

[Micheal]

To add on to what i said before, if you just play with a deep enough attack you'll get on the outside of our defense every time. Even Wales managed to do it consistently.

What I find interesting is that people are slamming the very concept of a shooter-based defensive system but that was exactly what the Lions did so effectively against the All Blacks this year.

Perhaps they were just better at executing it?

 

[Up the Guts]

They all need work at the moment, but this tackling stuff should have been worked out in the sand pits at Super Rugby training years ago, not in Wob camp

Yes, I don't think Cooper should be being taught to tackle in the Wallaby camp but I do think picking players and shuffling them around hides their deficiencies meaning they are not worked on as much at Super level.

 

[Up the Guts]

The only 10 who plays for a top 5/6 team who can actually defend effectively that i can think of is Farrell. And he's basically a 12 now anyway.
Jantjies, Sopoaga, Barrett, Ford, Sexton etc are all pretty small/shit at defending.

None are so bad as Cooper though whose defensive inabilities and propensity to give away yellow cards has basically prevented him from being selected at national level despite probably having the most natural talent out of all the guys you mentioned.

 

[gel]

most of the time it is fill a whole and trust the guys around you

That's the bit that doesn't happen - and it doesn't happen because some guys appear to have a mandate to be able to move wherever they want, whenever they want thereby creating the hole instead of filling it.

That's what I mean by guys should be defending in their position.[/quote]

 

[USARugger]

The only 10 who plays for a top 5/6 team who can actually defend effectively that i can think of is Farrell. And he's basically a 12 now anyway.
Jantjies, Sopoaga, Barrett, Ford, Sexton etc are all pretty small/shit at defending.

Sexton is anything but a weak defender.

 

[Derpus]

Sexton is anything but a weak defender.

Hes awright, but he's tiny. He's not stopping a decent ball-runner.

 

[USARugger]

Hes awright, but he's tiny. He's not stopping a decent ball-runner.

He's the same size as Owen Farrell. There's about half an inch and maybe 3-4kg between them at most. Sexton is regularly lauded for putting his body on the line in attack and defense. Have watched the guy stop the George Norths of World Rugby dead in their tracks enough times to know that this is just patently untrue.

 

[Rock Lobster]

What I find interesting is that people are slamming the very concept of a shooter-based defensive system but that was exactly what the Lions did so effectively against the All Blacks this year.

Perhaps they were just better at executing it?

Can't agree with that. The Lions defence was more rushed based than shooter, big difference. A shooter is one player, ala Hooper flying out of the line to try and shut down the ball player. A good ball player can and does make the shooter look stupid on many occasions & I have no idea why the Wallabies persist with it. The rush defence the Lions employed has 3, 4 or more players moving up very quickly together, usually with the outside player slightly ahead of the player inside in an attempt to stop the ball reaching the outside channels. It requires great discipline and structure and the Lions did it brilliantly.

 

[Derpus]

He's the same size as Owen Farrell. There's about half an inch and maybe 3-4kg between them at most. Sexton is regularly lauded for putting his body on the line in attack and defense. Have watched the guy stop the George Norths of World Rugby dead in their tracks enough times to know that this is just patently untrue.

Furry muff, remove him from my list then.

 

[USARugger]

Furry muff, remove him from my list then.

Honestly if our guys were defending like Farrell/Sexton there wouldn't even be a discussion to have, they're the world standard in the current game for defending that channel. They'll fall off the occassional tackle when they go low and the guy skips out of the tackle and frees their ankles, but they never do the stupid bullshit we often see our playmakers attempting. Then again Beale did just get the runaway strip try a few weeks ago - shame it took years of trying for it to produce something.

 

[Derpus]

Can't agree with that. The Lions defence was more rushed based than shooter, big difference. A shooter is one player, ala Hooper flying out of the line to try and shut down the ball player. A good ball player can and does make the shooter look stupid on many occasions & I have no idea why the Wallabies persist with it. The rush defence the Lions employed has 3, 4 or more players moving up very quickly together, usually with the outside player slightly ahead of the player inside in an attempt to stop the ball reaching the outside channels. It requires great discipline and structure and the Lions did it brilliantly.

The shooter should be a surprise play used occasionally. Hooper is great at it, but used every fucken time it's so shit. If you note the attack is a bit shallow, maybe call it and shoot out. Otherwise, just defend in a god damn line like a normal person.