The Wallabies Thread

[Up the Guts]

I understand TOCC's point about the lineout strength of those two, but my comment about the use of Cane and Savea at the same time seems to have been conveniently ignored

I like the idea of finishing with the Pooper in the same vain as the ABs as you mentioned. Especially if Timu at 8 goes absolutely nuts in the first 40 like Mafi did for the Rebels against the Hurricanes and gets subbed relatively early in the second half.

 

[jimmydubs]

I understand TOCC's point about the lineout strength of those two, but my comment about the use of Cane and Savea at the same time seems to have been conveniently ignored

What about the lack of go forward?

 

[KOB1987]

What about the lack of go forward?

I’m neither criticizing nor advocating it, just saying that other top tier nations do it as well, evidently without any specific mention of it.


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[TOCC]

I think there's both an argument for finishing the game with Pooper and also subbing Pooper for Hooper or vice versa, and that will depend on the variables of the game at that point in time. Is it a set-piece heavy game, are the wallabies winning or losing with 20mins to go and by how much? Also what substitutions have the opposition made and what style of game are they playing.

 

[jimmydubs]

I’m neither criticizing nor advocating it, just saying that other top tier nations do it as well, evidently without any specific mention of it.


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Fair enough. If it’s done it has to be part of a balanced back row (and back 5 and entire 8 for that matter) and different 7s are different and allow for that. I just don’t think these two do together.

 

[jimmydubs]

I like the idea of finishing with the Pooper

So do I, but how to convince the trouble and strife?

 

[Derpus]

I think you might find that gay people care, that advocacy groups care and some sponsors would certainly care.

If he has an opinion which tells other people they are going to hell, then I personally don't care, but perhaps he should avoid expressing that on social media.

Yeah, i guess as the obvious target of the comments. But really, they shouldn't. And i doubt many will/do. It's an evolving issue but i'm sure they have to deal with far worse than some christian sportsman saying he disagrees with them.

 

[Derpus]

He finished second in Super Rugby for pilfers/forced penalties last year. I'm not really sure what he has to do to convince people that 7 is obviously the position he is best suited for.

Change his name and go to a GPS school.

 

[cyclopath]

So does Wales have this much angst when they run out Tipuric & Warburton?

Yeah, but they spell it "llanphywlangstllrmu".

 

[Brumby Runner]

Back to the backrow issues. It seems that it is mainly in the confines of the wider Waratahs' community that Michael Hooper is regarded as a better No 7 than David Pocock, or that a combination of both is better than any other grouping of three players in the backrow. As good, almost great, as Hooper is as a player, I would be confident that most other rugby people, domestically and internationally, would rate Pocock as the better, albeit more conventional, No 7.

I hold the view that Pocock is a better No 7 and a better fit in the Wallabies' starting side than Michael Hooper. I would much rather see a starting backrow of 6-Dempsey (when fit), 7-Pocock, 8-Timu (based on current form), with Hooper to join the fray with 20 - 30 minutes left. Dempsey would be the third jumper at lineout time and Timu would be an extra option for variety. Most likely, Hooper would then replace Timu, but depending on the way the game is proceeding, he might be a straight swap for Pocock. In any event, I believe the Wallabies would benefit more from having Hooper on the ground at the end than at the beginning.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

I like the idea of finishing with the Pooper

​

So do I, but how to convince the trouble and strife?

​

Change his name and go to a GPS school.

 

[Braveheart81]

I have created a new thread for discussion of this. Let's keep it to that one.

 

[Up the Guts]

Dempsey would be the third jumper at lineout time and Timu would be an extra option for variety.

I'd like to see a bit more of Dempsey before we lock him in for the Wallaby 6 jumper. He made a heap of metres in the final Bledislode thanks to his footwork into contact but I'd like to see how consistent he is with his carriers at test level. Tui and Phillip should be considered at 6 as well as it would mean we carry a 3rd high quality lineout option and those two are also abrasive runners who hit hard in defence (especially Tui when he gets his technique right).

 

[Derpus]

I'd like to see a bit more of Dempsey before we lock him in for the Wallaby 6 jumper. He made a heap of metres in the final Bledislode thanks to his footwork into contact but I'd like to see how consistent he is with his carriers at test level. Tui and Phillip should be considered at 6 as well as it would mean we carry a 3rd high quality lineout option and those two are also abrasive runners who hit hard in defence (especially Tui when he gets his technique right).

We saw how effective playing three second rowers was when the Hurricanes beat the Rebels.

 

[Braveheart81]

It's all about balance. Maybe having a mobile lock at 6 works with Pocock and Hooper at 7 and 8 because it balances the overall pack better. It would certainly sure up the lineout by providing a strong third jumper and extra bulk in the scrum.

Where it could fall down is that the lock playing 6 might not be able to fill the role the 6 plays in attack in our structure. That would generally be out on the left edge.

The biggest question facing Cheika when looking at whether or not to pick both Pocock and Hooper to start or to include Timu instead is trying to determine whether Timu can bring that running game to the test arena. If he can't provide that go forward then we would have been better off with the Pooper.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

 

[Zero_Cool]

We saw how effective playing three second rowers was when the Hurricanes beat the Rebels.

I think the difference with Tui at least is that he's not a traditional second rower, he is a monster who happens to play in the second row, not Rob Simmons or Dean Mumm or *shudders* Australian Will Skelton.

Tui is just a dominant body, he monsters people in tackles and monsters defenders. Pretty sure he played 8 in League while he was a kid.

Also one thing regarding Timu that a lot of people have forgotten/overlooked/not seen while not a pilferer he's actually very useful at the breakdown.

 

[Derpus]

Wonder how ol' Skelly is doing for Saracens. He learnt to jump a bit in his last year.

I should really do some work.

 

[Up the Guts]

We saw how effective playing three second rowers was when the Hurricanes beat the Rebels.

But it all went to shit for the Rebels once Mafi left the field and they brought the more “mobile” reserves on towards the end of the first half in Hardwick followed by Colby in the second half. Tui and Phillip would also be far more effective at 6 than Timani.

 

[fatprop]

But it all went to shit for the Rebels once Mafi left the field and they brought the more “mobile” reserves on towards the end of the first half in Hardwick followed by Colby in the second half. Tui and Phillip would also be far more effective at 6 than Timani.

Yeah, the answer as usual is "it is more complicated than that"

Rebels looked good early as they ran hard and kept their shape

and then they lost their shape

 

[TSR]

Genuine and question - do we actually have any evidence that either Tui or Phillip can play 6 at even super level.

To my knowledge/memory Tui hasn’t played there at all at either super or NRC level. Not so sure on Phillip. I have an idea he may have played some 6.

I am not personally convinced Tui would make a great 6 and would at least like to see at it super rugby level before any thought is given of playing him there in the test arena. I get that it is a position of weakness for us, but I think that some players regress when they are asked to fill roles they aren’t suited to. I reckon the bloke is an outstanding talent - just not sure picking him at 6 is the right move for either him or the test side.