The Wallabies Thread
- Thread starter KOB1987
- Start date
Derpus
George Gregan (70)
I couldn't care less what you think at this point. You are quite clearly determined to be extremely upset about something that is not going to get any better anytime soon.You wanted to exclude the team you think we can't beat, so I excluded those that we should always beat too.
You're really desperate to make things look better than they are (and you still only get to 50%, which given the manipulation you had to use to get there is fucking terrible) when you are excluding the certain losses but not the certain wins. That's just absurd.
Every country plays the ABs, too, by the way.
There are issues at 10, for sure. But I don't buy that Cheika is at fault here.
The issue runs far deeper, into the High Performance units at RA and each Super team, and down into clubs and juniors.
Cheika has actually tried to develop a back-up to Foley at 10, but it's not really his fault that Hodge and Paia'aua are the best two candidates and still miles behind despite having opportunities in that role.
Us internet peanuts don't even have the luxury of Quade anymore. The cupboard is that bare.
The fault should lie with the people who should have seen this issue coming 3-5 years ago, and ensured that appropriate prospects were developed accordingly.
Instead, we brought in guys like Grant, Garden-Bachop and Hawera to play 10 for our Super teams.
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KOB1987
Rod McCall (65)
neilc
Bob Loudon (25)
Is there some kind of restriction on what positions imports can be used for? It seems very short sighted that such a key position of 10 would be allowed to have so many imports in it. I know that Hawera was a short turnaround recruit when CLL became sick and I assume that he was being looked at on the basis that he would qualify over time on residency grounds, but Grant was just a stop gap, and Garden-Bachop was odd.
Does RA have any kind of development program for roles such as 10's where they get up and coming players and provide mentoring and tuition in the role for them using past players or specialist coaches? Something like a 'flyhalf camp' where someone like say Elton Flatley or Michael Lynagh, or Andrew Mehrtens, or a particular skills coach, could spend time working with the young players on skills and decision making etc. The benefit that this could provide to some of these players could be immense - sure not all of them are going to go on to crack it but it would likely improve all of their games and that could feed back into their club games/age group teams etc and over time may lead to better skilled players at a high level.
RoffsChoice
Jim Lenehan (48)
Ireland are meant to have a system preventing more than one foreigner per position in the country; Ulster were unable to re-sign Ruan Pienaar because Leinster had signed Jamison Gibson-Park first.
I believe we used to have a rule limiting each franchise to two non Wallabies eligible players, with some exceptions for the Rebels and Force at the beginning, though I don't know if that rule is still in place. On top of that, aren't we limited to three non-eligible players who could qualify through residency?
I believe we used to have a rule limiting each franchise to two non Wallabies eligible players, with some exceptions for the Rebels and Force at the beginning, though I don't know if that rule is still in place. On top of that, aren't we limited to three non-eligible players who could qualify through residency?
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
That's really taking a long bow to suggest Cheika has been trying to develop back up No 10s. Hodge has been used only as a stop gap for injury, and I can't see that anyone, Cheika or otherwise has done anything that can be seen to be development of him in that role. He is the Mr Versatile, the new AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), who the coaches have relied on to fill any vacancy that has arisen without seemingly putting any effort into developing his skills to match those positions. I can't recall Paia'aua ever playing at 10 in a test team. Am I mistaken?
Just about every member of the Wallabies team has a skills weakness that we've all been able to identify. Sad to say, we've also been able to identify that there has been little to no improvement in those areas where skills have been lacking over the period Cheika has been in control.
It is really stretching credibility to say that Cheika has been trying to develop a back up No 10. That's not to say that there has been someone readily available to perform there, and that is certainly a problem at the lower levels, but it is just not accurate to suggest Cheika has been doing something about it. Will be interesting now to see how Matt To'omua is handled by Cheika. Whther the Foley fan wagon like it or not, To'omua is a genuine competitor for the Wallabies No 10, or No 12, spot, and should be given good game time, including starts, in some of the remaining RC games to see how that might work with the Wallabies.
Derpus
George Gregan (70)
Besides making it clear that he wants Quade Cooper playing for a super club, playing Quade Cooper in previous years before his catastrophic drop off in form/getting punted from his Super team for being shit, training and playing Hodge in the 10 spot and giving DP a shot against the Baabaa's?
Wildly innacurate.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
KOB1987
Rod McCall (65)
BR do you really think it’s the job of the national coach to develop a back up? In most situations there is an incumbent and a ready made back up, or if we’re really lucky there are 2 standout contenders with a bees dick between them. In our case we’ve got foley and then literally no one else worth selecting. The next 2 best candidates happen to already be in the team in other roles. It’s a similar situation with 6 and 8, the best candidates are either ineligible or injured. So we’re being forced to play blokes out of position.
Sure he might be wrong with his assessment of a players’ worth but to say he’s not trying is crap. He’s got a lot better insight to them than us armchair critics.
This is a failing of the ARU over the last 20 years, not cheika’s.
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Sure he might be wrong with his assessment of a players’ worth but to say he’s not trying is crap. He’s got a lot better insight to them than us armchair critics.
This is a failing of the ARU over the last 20 years, not cheika’s.
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Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
Barbarian's statement was that Cheika was developing back up No 10s. Nothing at all in his post or mine about Quade, but I see your obsession with him has got the better of you again.
Derpus
George Gregan (70)
What i meant was, he is clearly trying to create depth in the 10 position, either by making players available or giving other players a shot.
I don't understand what else he could do... Should he throw Stewart in against the Argies just to see if he's better at Test level than he is at Super level?
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
Right. I don't think we can say that Cheika was interested in giving Cooper a go last year. He pretty much continually overlooked him in favour of Brnard. But that is beside the point right now. Quade is not in the equation.
Personally, I would have liked to see him play Beale at 10 at some time in the mid year series with Kerevi at 12, but that was apparently not on Cheika's horizon. As for the present, I am a firm believer that To'omua offers more at 10 than Foley. He has a better passing game, a better kicking game (both imperatives for a No 10), is stronger in defense and doesn't have to defend on the wing, and imo manages the backline attack far better than Bernard. It will be interesting to see if there is any attempt to try MT there in the remaining RC.
I've never suggested Stewart as an option because he reminds me too much of McIntyre in the way he plays. But I do think it would have been worthwhile to bring Andrew Deegan into the squad this year for some real development action. The option was always there but never availed.
Personally, I would have liked to see him play Beale at 10 at some time in the mid year series with Kerevi at 12, but that was apparently not on Cheika's horizon. As for the present, I am a firm believer that To'omua offers more at 10 than Foley. He has a better passing game, a better kicking game (both imperatives for a No 10), is stronger in defense and doesn't have to defend on the wing, and imo manages the backline attack far better than Bernard. It will be interesting to see if there is any attempt to try MT there in the remaining RC.
I've never suggested Stewart as an option because he reminds me too much of McIntyre in the way he plays. But I do think it would have been worthwhile to bring Andrew Deegan into the squad this year for some real development action. The option was always there but never availed.
Strewthcobber
Mark Ella (57)
When was the last time you saw To'omua play at 10 BR?
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dru
Tim Horan (67)
Yep. Pretty much everything you just said.
Derpus
George Gregan (70)
Beale is garbage at 10. he has extensively established this by playing garbage every time he's played 10. He's played brilliant footy from fullback and 12. Never 10.
neilc
Bob Loudon (25)
Backup players for a test team should be playing in that position for their Super Rugby team, unless they're a utility on the bench covering a few positions. So what 10's playing Super Rugby are there? To'omua is a quality player but I think others have pointed out that he has been playing 12 in England most of the time. So, aside from him, who is there? Stewart is nowhere near ready and barely played 10 for the Reds this year - Thorn preferred Lance. Duncan P - same thing - he plays 12, I think I recall seeing him play 10 once for the Reds back when Richard Graham was there maybe, and he didn't look comfortable at 10 at Super Rugby level. CLL is well off the mark I believe, and the Rebels couldn't really settle on a 10 could they?
So that means the options are thin on the ground. Either Cheika takes a punt on someone from left field, either playing below Super Rugby level or converts them from another position, or he keeps going the way he has.
So that means the options are thin on the ground. Either Cheika takes a punt on someone from left field, either playing below Super Rugby level or converts them from another position, or he keeps going the way he has.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Its funny Barbar I seem to recall a few of us having a go about the structural aspects of Australian Rugby as far back as 2011 and earlier and others defending the ARU and state Unions to the death. Funny how times change, now apparently they should have seen the problems coming, but they had effusive support from far too many people who just were not holding those officials to account with what they were doing and pissing money and opportunity up the wall.
Derpus
George Gregan (70)
Not everyone can be a constant cynic. It's draining.