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This Super Rugby Draft proposal thing?

Adam84

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
the few comments I’ve read on how it would be implemented have said it will be a opt-in process for the player, it’s not going to be forced for obvious reasons surrounding legal implications and workers rights.
 

LeCheese

Peter Johnson (47)
the few comments I’ve read on how it would be implemented have said it will be a opt-in process for the player, it’s not going to be forced for obvious reasons surrounding legal implications and workers rights.
Even if it's opt-in, you'd think that there would have to be an element of privacy to it? No employer would really like a current employee openly expressing their interest to leave - which is probably exaggerated in an environment that's relies heavily on camaraderie and commitment to the team and teammates.
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Andrew Slack (58)
I struggle to see it working effectively. Drafts only work in sports where it's your only option i.e. US sports and the AFL. I know NBA, MLB & NHL have international leagues but nobody wants to play in them if you have the US option.

I'd expect Clubs from the Northern Hemisphere to come down and start offering contracts to kids afraid of where they may end up. The players would then be able to chose where they want as free agents later on. I think the first step would be allowing free movement between Super Rugby sides with no impact on international selections.

Imagine some of the shit games we'd get when teams start tanking for draft picks.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
The only way I see it working for young players is if it's really just limited to the one or two picks per team each season with a guaranteed minimum contract that is pretty good.

You can't put players in a draft and expect them to move around the country or overseas and then pay them less than $100k.
 

LeCheese

Peter Johnson (47)
The only way I see it working for young players is if it's really just limited to the one or two picks per team each season with a guaranteed minimum contract that is pretty good.

You can't put players in a draft and expect them to move around the country or overseas and then pay them less than $100k.
On top of that, covering relocation expenses would probably be required. If the number of picks isn't capped (at a low number), it could become an expensive exercise pretty quickly, particularly for teams like the Force, Rebels, and Brumbies who have weaker/fewer numbers in local pathways - not to mention Kiwi teams looking to pickup Pasifika players.
 

Dctarget

John Eales (66)
Dunno if we have to stress about it too much. Could be a bit of fun and PR. If each team only gets like two or three picks, you just need to find 36 young ones. They move around really easily anyway for opportunities. They're 18/19 ready for a gap year essentially. Stick it out for 2 years then can fuck off back to the Crusaders.
 

Micheal

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Whenever someone suggests a draft for Super Rugby, I believe it instantly reveals a skin-deep understanding of the sporting business and landscape. It's analysis that seems to be little more than 'The AFL is going well and the AFL draft is exciting. We should do that as well'.

That's not exactly what we want from our new CEO.

WE'RE TOO SMALL FOR A DRAFT

Looking at the AFL, they have 18 squads of 47 players each, which is 846 first grade squad members in total across the country. At 50 drafts per year, they are using the mechanism to fill only 5.9% of total squad positions annually.

We have 5 Super Rugby teams with a squad of 38 players each, which is 190 first grade squad members across the country. Assuming we fill 5.9% of these positions each year (like the AFL), that's 11.21 players, or 11 players and a half-back, per year.

Not exactly a big event is it? I doubt it'd even get a single article, or be livestreamed on YouTube. RA didn't even organise anything for the John Eales Medal this year, how are they going to pull off an exciting draft?

IT'S NOT A GOOD OFFER FOR PLAYERS

The AFL's average salary was $406,000 in 2022, with only 10 players earning under $100,000.

The average Super Rugby salary was $156,000 in the same year, so it can be assumed that fringe squad members are getting far below $100,00. I'd estimate $50,000-$70,000.

For reference, you can earn $70,000+ in a call centre in Sydney. We're not offering our fringe squad members comfortable lifestyles, particularly in major cities, and I personally wouldn't move across the country to Perth for that salary, particularly when the opportunity cost of doing so is a far greater salary and more interesting lifestyles in Japan and Europe.

Of course, there is then the problem of international representation. Super Rugby is a glorified trial for Wallabies selection, and that is where the money is for players (via top-ups and match fees), as well as a boost in their profile that helps them monetise elsewhere, both during and after their career. You only have to look at Phil Waugh to see how playing for the Wallabies can open doors for you!

Look at the Western Force and consider their players representation in the Wallabies squad. It's not great is it? Being drafted there is essentially an enormous hurdle to higher honours. Seems like some players would want control over that, wouldn't they?

IT'S NOT USEFUL FOR CLUBS

Basketball and the AFL are largely games of agility, reflexes and coordination. Rugby is first and foremost a game of physicality: a big man will always beat a small man, all other things being equal.

The thing about 18-21 year olds is that they are very often not big men, relative to people in their mid-20s and beyond.

If you look at the 73 debutants in the AFL in 2022, 48 were 18 or 19 years old (65.8%). 9 of them were 20 years old and 4 were 21. Only 12 players (or 16.4% of debutants) were over 21. It's a young mans game.

Conversely, if an 18 or 19 year old debuts in Super Rugby, it's a news story (e.g. Petaia or Jorgensen). If a 20 or 21 year old debuts in Super Rugby, it's a huge talking point and will garner dozens of comments on this forum.

The key reality is that most draftees are useless to Super Rugby clubs for the first 3 or so years of their time in a squad, and therefore have to be compensated accordingly.

Of course, the draft could include older players too, but the exciting component of a draft is potential. Who wants to see Brian, the 27 year old electrician, be drafted on TV? Not me.

THERE ARE BETTER WAYS TO ACHIEVE THE SAME GOALS

If the draft is to drum up media interest, just sign more players like Sua'ali'i. If we assume that signing 10 draftees at competitive salaries (e.g. $150K+ per year), then it's about the same price as just signing another Sua'ali'i each year. He has already generated far more media value than a draft would.

If the core purpose of the draft is to secure young players for the future, do it directly and sign them on the salaries they're worth and can be afforded.

If the core purpose of the draft is to equalise talent across Australian teams, just give lower performing teams more money to sign players, or work through processes like centralised contracting.

THE VERDICT?

Nonsense. It's a fantastic system for sports that are suitable, but that ain't us.
 

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
I have always been against it (forcing players to move etc) but if players can go into pool if they want no problems (but we already got this anyway really). I like @The Ghost of Raelene would worry about tanking games etc. I not convinced it needed anyway, as I know a lot talk about depth for Aus teams etc, but believe they are getting there anyway. With a comp tied into 2030, all clubs can really spend time on developing young players' which over last few years I imagine there was a little reluctance with noone sure comp around in future.
As for myself , I would rather Canes developed own players etc, gives a lot more pride in the achievements. Chiefs are great example and suspect we will see a team like Clan come on in a couple of years as they have decided go down development route!
 

Wallaby Man

Trevor Allan (34)
I don’t believe it will happen but there is ways around making it happen.

Tanking is easily solved with fines for teams deliberately not selecting full strength squads. This already happens in other sports, some ignore it because they are so cashed up and don’t worry about the fine but rugby isn’t in this position.

The contracting model would have to change for it to work to a more centralized model.

The only thing I could see happening is say they offer a guaranteed minimum income for rookies that nominate for the draft. A salary well above what’s offered to youngsters at the same age. Maybe with the top 24 youngsters drafted with a guaranteed $100k+ to get buy in. But as mentioned above, who would nominate to go from Hamilton to Sydney on $70k. One city you live pretty well the other you couldn’t get a home loan.
 

Jimmyjam

Darby Loudon (17)
You could make it work if everyone bought in, players and clubs. A general Super Rugby draft for non contracted players who weren't overly happy with their current offer could opt in and test the market with the fallback being the retention offer they have. The draft could be made quite the entertainment piece with a R/E type atmosphere where if the bid doesn't meet the players threshold for moving then he doesn't hit say the green button to say 'he's now on the market! So current offer is say $150k p.a. but then will only leave with around a $250k+ offer to make it worthwhile. Rookies could work on the same basis, with the big names also looking for some serious upside. As long as it was done prior to pre-season it could be a great TV event!
 

Jimmy_Crouch

Ken Catchpole (46)
McLennan is just looking for ways that increase fan engagement for longer periods and provide more content for media companies. I think he is saying it isn't currently working lets look outside our conservative prism.
 

PhilClinton

Geoff Shaw (53)
You could make it work if everyone bought in, players and clubs. A general Super Rugby draft for non contracted players who weren't overly happy with their current offer could opt in and test the market with the fallback being the retention offer they have. The draft could be made quite the entertainment piece with a R/E type atmosphere where if the bid doesn't meet the players threshold for moving then he doesn't hit say the green button to say 'he's now on the market! So current offer is say $150k p.a. but then will only leave with around a $250k+ offer to make it worthwhile. Rookies could work on the same basis, with the big names also looking for some serious upside. As long as it was done prior to pre-season it could be a great TV event!

I don't think we have the quality of players or depth that there would be leftover players who weren't happy with their current offer and lasted long enough on the open market to warrant going to a 'draft' and then having a bidding war.

Anyone who's any good will be signed by the teams before it got to that point, there wouldn't be big money offers sitting on the table.
 

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
Question, if a young player goes into draft, how long would he be stuck at club that drafted him? Or would it be say 2 years etc and then go wherever you choose?
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I like the outside-the-box thinking but ffs this ain't it at all. The NRL haven't even managed to pull this off, why would we. Just do free movement first.
 

Rob42

John Solomon (38)
yeah good point, how come the NRL don't do it?

Edit - this is a better article about the legal challenges:
 
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