Time to revamp cards to Yellow, Orange, Red ?
- Thread starter CTPE
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The Raging Potato
Allen Oxlade (6)
How about something like this...
"Team" yellow card (e.g. repeated infringements) 10 minutes in the bin as normal. Team therefore punished with only 14 (or less as the case may be) on the field.
"Individual" yellow card. 10 minutes in bin for offending player or team can elect to replace player for those 10 minutes. The reserve used cannot come back on after his 10 minutes of cover (i.e one reserve has deemed to have been used).
"Team" red card (e.g. as result of an all-in biffo free for all) player sent from field and disciplined as currently. Team reduced to however many left.
"Individual" red card. Player sent from field and disciplined as currently however team can use reserve to replace player. This would also apply to red as a result of two yellows unless 2nd yellow was for a "Team" offence. Only allowed once and a second red carded player cannot be replaced as it is then deemed to be a team offence.
You could maybe add a limit of "card" reserves allowed out of the maximum allowed reserves for the game
"Team" yellow card (e.g. repeated infringements) 10 minutes in the bin as normal. Team therefore punished with only 14 (or less as the case may be) on the field.
"Individual" yellow card. 10 minutes in bin for offending player or team can elect to replace player for those 10 minutes. The reserve used cannot come back on after his 10 minutes of cover (i.e one reserve has deemed to have been used).
"Team" red card (e.g. as result of an all-in biffo free for all) player sent from field and disciplined as currently. Team reduced to however many left.
"Individual" red card. Player sent from field and disciplined as currently however team can use reserve to replace player. This would also apply to red as a result of two yellows unless 2nd yellow was for a "Team" offence. Only allowed once and a second red carded player cannot be replaced as it is then deemed to be a team offence.
You could maybe add a limit of "card" reserves allowed out of the maximum allowed reserves for the game
What's wrong with offenders choosing a glass of wine?
Looking for a sponsorship opportunity Lindo?
Beer (Mclaren Vale Beer) and Rugby mix.
Rugby players drink beer. Rugby's Undernourished (backs) drink wine, shandies, and spritzers.
How often do you see one of the undernourished rugby players (aka backs) getting a YC/RC? There would probably be a lot of unused sponsors product if the offenders had a choice between a McLaren Vale Beer, or a good Coonawarra Red, or Mudgee Port.
Wine is best left to the administrators, and Moore Park and St Leonards Boardroom types. They must do lost of bad things at Board meetings, based on the numbers of empties when the meetings are finished.
JSRF10
Dick Tooth (41)
TRP I think its a good idea in theory but I'd prefer the IRB to give the referees explicit clear instructions of what is and what isn't a yellow/red card and also back their referees publicly to the hilt by giving them the next available big game.
An example of this would be if an defending player kills the ball in their own 22 its a yellow card, yes initially we would see an increase in yellow cards but players would adapt and everyone would know what is and what isn't a yellow card. In the Bledisloe II this year the All Blacks at one stage commited about 3 yellow card offenses in 10 seconds but the referee didn't want to know as they were the first offenses (from memory). Or if you lift a player above the horizontal and drop them on their head, whether it was deliberate or not or whether this is a World Cup Final or a Subbies 3rd Grade game, its a red card. Our referee hasn't ruined the game your cynical tactics/dangerous play has.
Also regarding backing their referee to use the Warburton example, the IRB needed to appoint Rolland as the referee of the next big game in the Millenium Stadium instead they pandered to Welsh moaning and he never referred them after that.
An example of this would be if an defending player kills the ball in their own 22 its a yellow card, yes initially we would see an increase in yellow cards but players would adapt and everyone would know what is and what isn't a yellow card. In the Bledisloe II this year the All Blacks at one stage commited about 3 yellow card offenses in 10 seconds but the referee didn't want to know as they were the first offenses (from memory). Or if you lift a player above the horizontal and drop them on their head, whether it was deliberate or not or whether this is a World Cup Final or a Subbies 3rd Grade game, its a red card. Our referee hasn't ruined the game your cynical tactics/dangerous play has.
Also regarding backing their referee to use the Warburton example, the IRB needed to appoint Rolland as the referee of the next big game in the Millenium Stadium instead they pandered to Welsh moaning and he never referred them after that.
I think the basic logic needs to be that if you think that there is a problem with yellow and red cards currently then introducing more of them with more rules and conditions is not the way to fix it. I don't think you fix things by making them more complex.
As @JSRF10 said, it needs to come back to clearer directives from the IRB to referees on how and when cards should be used and then backing the referees to do their job.
As @JSRF10 said, it needs to come back to clearer directives from the IRB to referees on how and when cards should be used and then backing the referees to do their job.
Zander
Ron Walden (29)
Some deserve a red card but some do not. I don't know how you can make that call considering Du Plessis' red card the other day.
I think a red card offence needs to be heavily reviewed before it is given, I don't like the ref able to make a decision like that in real time with little replay given considering it's such a major call.
I mean the IRB literally came out and said it was wrong. The red card ruined #1 vs #2.
Also I am in no way praising the NRL system where players stay on the field no matter what. 20 mins for most red card offences and then a lengthy ban. I do understand the argument where it can actually be worse for the victim's side if the offender gets a ban.
Eyes and Ears
Bob Davidson (42)
While I don't completely agree with this, I can understand the rationale. I would make 1 alteration which would be that the red carded player cannot return after 20 mins - it would need to be a replacement to bring the numbers back to 15 on 15.
It was an incorrect refereeing decision. That said, it was an incorrect decision to give the first yellow card. The second yellow card was perfectly legitimate and BdP has no one to blame but himself for committing the offence which resulted in his send off.
Just like if a try is incorrectly awarded or not awarded in a close game it could 'ruin' the game.
I don't think the cards are the problem here.
JSRF10
Dick Tooth (41)
Until we have machines referring the games referees will make mistakes, in fairness to Bismarks first yellow card the touchies and the video referee all had multiple replays and angles shown one of them should have had the cop on to tell Poite it was lucky to even be a penalty against DC. There does seem to be something about the Darkness which make even the most component referees lose their stones.
boyo
Mark Ella (57)
Not the Welsh national team, but I saw Rolland referee Scarlets v Northampton at parc-y-scarlets in 2012 - he was booed by the crowd I think that was his first refereeing appointment in Wales since RWC 2011. He is retiring at the end of the season.
It is what it is
John Solomon (38)
The concern here is that team's will send on assassins to target and maim as many of the opposition's key players as possible.
Some teams would risk playing a man short for 20 mins if they could remove the other team's key player/s.
Guys like Steve Finanne with his phantom punching ability would be invaluable if this were to be introduced.
Eyes and Ears
Bob Davidson (42)
that's why I don't agree with this but it would be even worse if the assassin could return after 20 mins to take out the 2nd best player.
It is so wrong that the punters can dictate the referee appointments. That sort of crap is for other codes and sports.
We need referees otherwise there is no game.
Even NZ crowds, with their childish booing of QC (Quade Cooper), seem to have recovered from Wayne Barnes and RWC 07. They can at least see the the importance of moving on over a referee, but it is difficult to see why they can't get over a bit of Sir Ruchie GOAT niggle.
The Saffers and Bryce Lawrence -- well that is another story, at another level.
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
I would stick with the yellow and red cards as at present, but refs have to be directed to use the yellow card for 'cynical' play in the attacking 22. I am fine with the 10 minutes, but I would also suggest the attacking team be given an option of taking the penalty (kick for line eg) either where the offence was committed or from a penalty spot directly in front of the posts and say 15m out.
On the red card, how about the offender being removed from the rest of the game, but a substitute being allowed on after a 10 minute break?
I also believe the citing official should be given the power to review all and any offences, not just those that were dealt with by the ref.
On the red card, how about the offender being removed from the rest of the game, but a substitute being allowed on after a 10 minute break?
I also believe the citing official should be given the power to review all and any offences, not just those that were dealt with by the ref.
I thought they were all pretty good decisions.
Overall I thought Owens and Barnes had excellent games.
CTPE
Nev Cottrell (35)
Messam's card was effectively a "team foul" card for repeated infringements in the ruck although I thought McCall should have got the card (when did he last get one?). Frank's card was for an individual illegal act of foul play with a swinging forearm to the head of an opponent - I think it deserved more than the 10 minutes Messam got (or perhaps Messam deserved less than the 10 minutes Franks got?)
I think you are making a mistake by comparing each yellow card to the other. If you do that you will always end up with one seeming harsh and one seeming lenient (unless they were for the same offence).
I think you need to judge each one on its own merits.
I think it is fair to accept that repeated infringements is a perfectly justifiable reason for a yellow card.
I also think Franks swinging arm was a yellow card offence. It certainly wasn't on the higher end of a striking offence. If anything, it was very much of the lower end.
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