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VRU Dewar Shield 2016 - and other comps

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amirite

Chilla Wilson (44)
OneOrThree, at least they've both got other grades definitely in the finals.

Regardless of where you fall on this, it's pretty ridiculous to see that they're making a decision on something that happened in round 1 and 2 on the Wednesday before the first round of finals.
 

OneOrThree

Herbert Moran (7)
I agree the timing and execution is poor, however the breach occurred in Round 6 vs. EH and either Round 5 or 7, affecting teams not in finals contention, being Footscray or Uni.
 

amirite

Chilla Wilson (44)
I agree the timing and execution is poor, however the breach occurred in Round 6 vs. EH and either Round 5 or 7, affecting teams not in finals contention, being Footscray or Uni.


That's not what I heard but it matches the fixture.

I can't believe there's still radio silence about this. Are BH and Endeavour 1s going to have to run another training session on hypotheticals?
 

oztimmay

Geoff Shaw (53)
Staff member
So, I've been following a discussion in the Dewar Shield Facebook group. Besides 22Mand KevinO, not sure who else is a member here? Here's some background on the "complaint":

(names have been stripped, and quoted directly from FB).


Yes they did play an unregistered player twice! which they've admitted to and were fined for it BUT the correct processes weren't followed, a complaint has been lodged and the executive board meet tomorrow to adjudicate. Competition rules are clear and Box Hill should lose a minimum of 10 competition points. Minus 8 points for playing the unregistered player and minus 2 points for bonus points taken. The offence occurred in the first round against Endeavour Hills so...competition rules also state that the non offending team receive 5 competition points and a score of 28 nil in favour. If wrong is put right then the final ladder will look like this;
1. Harlequins 81 pts
2. Unicorns 79 pts
3. Endeavour Hills - 53 pts (-2 pts diff)
4. Powerhouse - 53 pts (-72 pts diff)
5. Box Hill 52 pts

6. Moorabbin 52 pts.


And some further update on the process:


A preliminary hearing was held today by the VRU board (don't ask me why a preliminary hearing, it's the email I received), The official meeting is at 6pm tomorrow night and representatives from three clubs have been asked to attend. The email I received also states that a final decision will be made either Wednesday or Thursday.

So, from what I read, an outcome will be announced today by the VRU.

Some things that come to mind. I'll declare I'm a supporter of Box Hill, and I'm an armchair legal expert at best.


  • It appears the complaint is made against the process the VRU followed to penalise Box Hill, and the penalty the actually received.
  • It's not clear who made the original complaint. It appears the FB user us very knowledgeable of the process underway, and also appears to be associated with Endeavour Hills. So, it could have been submitted by them, or a joint PH/EH submission, or both.
  • It's not clear when the complaint was made. Ideally, any complaint would have been made around the time the original penalty was imposed. However, there is a chance it was only made recently, i.e. when EH/PH thought they were a chance of making the finals. I think this speaks to the sincerity of the complaint and could impact the outcome handed down by the VRU. Put bluntly, if the complaint was only made recently, yet the problem occurred months ago, why is it such a big problem now?
  • It appears that there VRU handed down a penalty, and Box Hill have fulfilled the terms of that penalty in good faith. If the decision was to go against them, it would seem grossly unfair to alter the terms due to an administrative/process bungle. They have conducted themselves on the basis on that original penalty, and to alter that would probably give grounds for them to appeal that decision.
Personally, I don't see any alteration to the original penalty, leaving the current ladder position unchanged. It will be interesting to see what happens, and if further action is taken. I do feel for PH and EH, but they only have the VRU to blame.
 

amirite

Chilla Wilson (44)
It's a tough one isn't it Oztimmay, obviously to change the penalty is unfair to BH who've served a penalty and put this behind them but likewise, rules are rules. It appears the VRU have codified a rule in writing and are deciding to enforce it in a different way, which is silly and leads to inconsistencies.

As an aside - it's 3:30 on the Thursday before the finals. Training is in 3 hours. What's the ruling?
 

OneOrThree

Herbert Moran (7)
I was made aware of the breach in May, so it has been around for a while. Totally agree that the delay in releasing a decision is unacceptable.
 

oztimmay

Geoff Shaw (53)
Staff member
Just to add to my text wall, I believe any of the parties could appeal the decision. Wonder how that would play.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Highlander35

Andrew Slack (58)
Looks like incompetency all round. Box Hill for playing the ineligible player. The other clubs for not lodging complaints earlier. And the VRU for everything else.
 

pablo

Darby Loudon (17)
This is becoming quite ridiculous really! If Charlie was around this would have never happened!
 

oztimmay

Geoff Shaw (53)
Staff member
I would think you can. This is a VRU process, however they would be subject to ARU rules, and I think there would be an appeals process embedded in there somewhere. Can't be sure, only speculating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

oztimmay

Geoff Shaw (53)
Staff member
FB update from 22 Metri - Box Hill and Powerhouse confirmed as 3rd and 4th respectively. Looks like the appeal was dismissed.
 

Highlander35

Andrew Slack (58)
Logic prevails.

The incorrect penalty was handed out in the first place, no one is disputing that, but had the penalty been given when appropriate, there were 3 narrow losses (14-15 to Power House, 22-28 to EH, and the 11ish point one to Moorabbin) that would have all become 8 pointers, and even then, 1 win from those 3 would have been enough to secure 3rd.
 

amirite

Chilla Wilson (44)
Logic prevails.

The incorrect penalty was handed out in the first place, no one is disputing that, but had the penalty been given when appropriate, there were 3 narrow losses (14-15 to Power House, 22-28 to EH, and the 11ish point one to Moorabbin) that would have all become 8 pointers, and even then, 1 win from those 3 would have been enough to secure 3rd.


That being said, I think the original penalty is *reasonably* fair.

This whole issue has really stolen the conversation away from the fact that Moorabin had a fantastic squad this year and the fact they didn't make finals is staggering.
 

pablo

Darby Loudon (17)
How do we think the games will go this weekend?

I think it might be Melbourne and House victories.
 

amirite

Chilla Wilson (44)
How do we think the games will go this weekend?

I think it might be Melbourne and House victories.


I think Quins and Box Hill. I mean House look better with Fox at 8 but they haven't got the talent out wide to shut down how good Box Hill are in space.

Quins on the other hand have been rotating and this is probably the first time they've played their full best XV.
 
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