• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Wallabies 2023

eastman

Arch Winning (36)
Eastman, there ain't a pile of strong potential in 17 or 20 year old forwards, yet you can condemn them to 'not good enough'. You are part of the problem and don't seem to know a solution.
The solution is that Australian rugby needs to be more profitable so it can retain more talent- no one seems to be able to solve that one though.

I also don’t think that losing one average behemoth is the end of the world. There’s a bit of a fetish with size at the moment because Skeltons found some form- this guy won’t end up being that good.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I think you're a bit confused. Meafou right now is one of the best players in the world with many saying his potential is higher than that of Skelton (he looks more athletic). France desperately wanted him in their side this year.
 

stillmissit

Chilla Wilson (44)
Skelton got an opportunity. I just feel like we expected too much from him too soon. He needed time to develop. I seem to recall to pressure of unrealistic expectations caused mental health issues and he sought a change of environment.

I must admit I was a doubter if Skelton’s value at test level until EOYT but I am very happy to be proven wrong as, to my understanding, he is a guy who has stared down a few personal demons.
TSR, Mental Health Issue? Is this a scoop for you or did you make it up?
 

stillmissit

Chilla Wilson (44)
Skelton got an opportunity. I just feel like we expected too much from him too soon. He needed time to develop. I seem to recall to pressure of unrealistic expectations caused mental health issues and he sought a change of environment.

I must admit I was a doubter if Skelton’s value at test level until EOYT but I am very happy to be proven wrong as, to my understanding, he is a guy who has stared down a few personal demons.
We all have to stare down a few personal issues, it's called growing up! A thing many millennials have a problem with. In fact, it is the main thing we should do in our lives ie fix your own issues before offering advice to others you think need fixing.

If you lose a 20 year old and they continue to play pro sport, there is a very high chance they will be more than useful in 2-3 years time.
 

stillmissit

Chilla Wilson (44)
I could see those guys all in the 23. I doubt we would out them all on the field at the one time, but it isn’t without merit. Would certainly change our game plan.
If Jones stays I could see us with a great back row and better than average locks. If we find/develop a very good Hooker then that pack will be very hard to beat.
Just a thought, could one of our lighter props be converted into a hooker? No names spring to mind.
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Andrew Slack (58)
I have no problem with picking the biggest guys you can find if they have the ability to play with speed.

I think this is why Leota may feature ahead of a guy like LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) if we are talking Back Row options. Even Holloway for a heavy guy gets around the field pretty well.
 

The Ghost of Raelene

Andrew Slack (58)
Besides Spies those players also lumbered around the field. Players like that aren't particularly difficult to bring down. That's why I think there is a definite speed, size relationship.
 

Digestif Palu

Stan Wickham (3)
I've never understood this fanscination of picking on size to "win" the collisions. Timani, Pierre Spies and Mark Chisholm were all huge men that played like they weighed under 90kgs.

I'd rather Timani run at me than McMahon.

That's just not true though. Sitaleki Timani hit hard in defense and rucks, he just wasn't strong at carrying. Lopeti was solid but unremarkable. Chisholm was fine in contact and Spies had his moments but also wasn't particularly heavy, both were picked more for their athleticism. You've given the most extreme examples of not even particularly large players (compared to our current options), whos strengths weren't impact carrying to say size doesn't win collisions.

Size definitely impacts the collision. Not just carrying either, big bodies are much more effective at the clean out generally, better defending in tight and better in scrums and malls. That's not even all things being equal. Tight forward play is much more about size and power than speed. Not saying there's not room for both but I think it's pretty clear why coaches are fascinated with big players who can win collisions. The prospect of Skelton going toe to toe or even getting one over guys like Etzebeth and Retallick is pretty appealing. In terms of backrows too, I think everyone has seen how ineffectual in contact both Mcreight and particularily Hooper have been at times this year.
 

Wallaby Man

Trevor Allan (34)
That's just not true though. Sitaleki Timani hit hard in defense and rucks, he just wasn't strong at carrying. Lopeti was solid but unremarkable. Chisholm was fine in contact and Spies had his moments but also wasn't particularly heavy, both were picked more for their athleticism. You've given the most extreme examples of not even particularly large players (compared to our current options), whos strengths weren't impact carrying to say size doesn't win collisions.

Size definitely impacts the collision. Not just carrying either, big bodies are much more effective at the clean out generally, better defending in tight and better in scrums and malls. That's not even all things being equal. Tight forward play is much more about size and power than speed. Not saying there's not room for both but I think it's pretty clear why coaches are fascinated with big players who can win collisions. The prospect of Skelton going toe to toe or even getting one over guys like Etzebeth and Retallick is pretty appealing. In terms of backrows too, I think everyone has seen how ineffectual in contact both Mcreight and particularily Hooper have been at times this year.
This is a post from someone that knows their stuff.

100% agree. I’d rather Timani running at me than McMahon but I’d also rather gang tackle McMahon off a pick and go around the ruck. It’s why we need balance across the field from not just who can jump in the line out etc. but who offers different carry abilities in different situations, the same in defense etc.
 

Highlander35

Andrew Slack (58)
NFI - my father WW2, grandfather WW1,uncle WW1 and WW2 and brother in SAS Malaya.

There is a sincere and reasonable discussion to be had re: overprescription of medicated solutions to mental health issues in order to keep the working life machine going rather than taking the time and space to make appropriate lifestyle changes,

However, your comment is a fairly archaic way of thinking, that fails to acknowledge that there have been material changes to society that have occurred over the previous 50 years around both deinstitutionalisation and the constant but shallow interconnectivity that makes up much of socialisation and information gain, rather than the more substantive interpersonal connections of the past, that have gone a long way to change how mental health issues are common and visible.

And that's well before you even consider the substance abuse, suicide/self-harm and (sexual/domestic/animal) abuse that made up the majority of the coping mechanisms of the past that would have been either socially acceptable or swept under the rug.

As such, your comment was given an appropriate level of mockery. Particularly given the subject matter of the thread at hand.
 
Top