Wallabies 2023

[Bandar]

Well, I suppose it's a pretty low bar, only other one I can think of is Sean McMahon, could've been a real goodie if he wasn't continually shunted to 8 by Cheika for Hoops (which created an unprecedentedly small & unbalanced backrow).

Peak MacMahon 2017 was Australia's own Savea, the guy had incredible leg-drive & made huge post-contact metres every time. He deserved far more time at 7 for the Wallabies, didn't get it with Hoops there and departed for Japan at his peak.

Savea the All Black 8?

 

[Mr Pilfer]

Seems to be me there's still a couple of selections that are Eddie trying to confirm his last few RWC squad members although you wouldn't expect them to be in either Bledisloe 23.

Schoupp or Gibbon
Donaldson or Hodge

Also importantly, I think this also just about closes the door on anyone not named in any squad yet.

In terms of players people might've had in their RWC squads that is

Fainga'a
Lachlan Lonergan
Talakai
Neville
Swain
LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)
Hanigan
Wilson
Jake Gordon
Foley
Flook
Campbell
Toole

Yeah I think it still depends on performance. If we get flogged twice I can see a couple of these getting swapped in, possibly Fainga'a and Wilson

 

[Doritos Day]

The recalling of McMahon was so bizarre

Bloke basically used R.A. for a plane ticket lol

 

[Bullrush]

I think Samu is unlucky - although like others I suspect Jones is just having a look at Gleeson.

But you’re grossly overstating Samu’s output. In one of those games he missed 5-6 tackles and made a bunch of passive ones. He has filled the role of bench forward well, but to suggest that historically he’s been better than Hooper - well - You are entitled to your opinion but I’d be surprised if many agree.

Samu is a good test bench forward but he hasn’t been at his best and, for the time being at least, that has cost him.

2 of the 3 Tests he started last year were against the All Blacks and in both those games, according to the guys on this forum anyway, he was the best Wallaby on the field. Even with 5 missed tackles. And it wasn't just GAGR. Almost every rugby journalist also rated him as the best Wallaby on the day.

I don't know if Michael Hooper has ever been rated as the best Wallaby on the park against the ABs on this forum but definitely not in the last 2 years or so. So you can think I'm grossly overstating his output but then so is everyone here who voted him twice as the GAGR Wallaby of the game in consecutive outings.

Historically, Hooper has started untold more games than Samu so, like Gill and McMahon before him, we will never know how good he might have been because regardless of how well he plays, he will never get a proper shot at being the starting 7.

 

[Purce]

2 of the 3 Tests he started last year were against the All Blacks and in both those games, according to the guys on this forum anyway, he was the best Wallaby on the field. Even with 5 missed tackles. And it wasn't just GAGR. Almost every rugby journalist also rated him as the best Wallaby on the day.

I don't know if Michael Hooper has ever been rated as the best Wallaby on the park against the ABs on this forum but definitely not in the last 2 years or so. So you can think I'm grossly overstating his output but then so is everyone here who voted him twice as the GAGR Wallaby of the game in consecutive outings.

Historically, Hooper has started untold more games than Samu so, like Gill and McMahon before him, we will never know how good he might have been because regardless of how well he plays, he will never get a proper shot at being the starting 7.

Agreed regarding Samu. I can't ever recall him having a poor game for the Wallabies. There was maybe 1 game he was average but he always seems to lift for intl footy. Huge impact off the bench with great experience now.

I think it ties in with the latest shiny new thing out of NSW being Gleeson who a group of people are talking about as the messiah. He doesn't have more runs on the board than those ahead of him. Particularly at 7.

No doubt he is a talent and I think he will be a staple in a couple years however he has never played the likes of SA and English, Irish or French forward pack. Very unknown quantity right now.

This ties into my thinking that Eddie wants to trial him against NZ. If he stand up and delivers then probably a ticket booked to the RWC. He likes a few raw players in his squad.

Imo Samu should be a lock for the squad and the 23.

 

[Namerican]

We won't know what exactly Eddie is planning until the RWC squad is finalized. Guys like Samu, Hodge and Wright might be taking a few games off because he knows what he has with them - for better or worse - but could still be in the final team depending on how others fare in the Bledisloe/training. Can they still train with the squad?

I fine Uelese/Vunivalu as perplexing as anyone. Seems like EJ (Eddie Jones) is trying to play some 4d chess, when the smart move is to just select Fainga'a and Toole/Campbell/Wright. I don't know how they are suddenly going to learn how to play rugby properly after literally years and years of playing with the same shortcomings that haven't improved.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Any thought around the fact it might not purely be form? Wright had a stinker but maybe he was asked to adjust or work on something and he didn't.

 

[qwerty51]

What Wright does wrong isn't even form, it's attitude and lack of care under pressure. His decision making is awful.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

What Wright does wrong isn't even form, it's attitude and lack of care under pressure. His decision making is awful.

That's what I'm getting at.

 

[fatprop]

Agreed regarding Samu. I can't ever recall him having a poor game for the Wallabies. There was maybe 1 game he was average but he always seems to lift for intl footy. Huge impact off the bench with great experience now.

I think it ties in with the latest shiny new thing out of NSW being Gleeson who a group of people are talking about as the messiah. He doesn't have more runs on the board than those ahead of him. Particularly at 7.

No doubt he is a talent and I think he will be a staple in a couple years however he has never played the likes of SA and English, Irish or French forward pack. Very unknown quantity right now.

This ties into my thinking that Eddie wants to trial him against NZ. If he stand up and delivers then probably a ticket booked to the RWC. He likes a few raw players in his squad.

Imo Samu should be a lock for the squad and the 23.

Samu 2022 was bloody good, but he looked like he was phoning it in for the Ponies this year

That said, with Hooper in rehab, I was surprised he isn't in the squad for his 7 cover

 

[TSR]

2 of the 3 Tests he started last year were against the All Blacks and in both those games, according to the guys on this forum anyway, he was the best Wallaby on the field. Even with 5 missed tackles. And it wasn't just GAGR. Almost every rugby journalist also rated him as the best Wallaby on the day.

I don't know if Michael Hooper has ever been rated as the best Wallaby on the park against the ABs on this forum but definitely not in the last 2 years or so. So you can think I'm grossly overstating his output but then so is everyone here who voted him twice as the GAGR Wallaby of the game in consecutive outings.

Historically, Hooper has started untold more games than Samu so, like Gill and McMahon before him, we will never know how good he might have been because regardless of how well he plays, he will never get a proper shot at being the starting 7.

Sure - because a lot of the time we punters miss the detail (and, to be fair to him, it was in a game where the ABs belted us and - by design or bad luck - a lot of that came down his channel.

The other thing you said was Samu better than Hooper historically. If you’d said over the last 2 yrs I would have agreed with you. Maybe I’m just being too pedantic in the intent in your comments.

Samu has been excellent off the bench at test level - no argument at all from me there. But Gleeson appears to be the anointed next big thing - even pulling the wheels off the Charlie Gamble express. I’m happy enough to see how Gleeson get his chance.

I won’t be surprised when if, when it comes to final WC selection it may be one of McReight or Hooper that misses out and both Gamble & Samu go.

 

[molman]

Sure - because a lot of the time we punters miss the detail (and, to be fair to him, it was in a game where the ABs belted us and - by design or bad luck - a lot of that came down his channel.

The other thing you said was Samu better than Hooper historically. If you’d said over the last 2 yrs I would have agreed with you. Maybe I’m just being too pedantic in the intent in your comments.

Samu has been excellent off the bench at test level - no argument at all from me there. But Gleeson appears to be the anointed next big thing - even pulling the wheels off the Charlie Gamble express. I’m happy enough to see how Gleeson get his chance.

I won’t be surprised when if, when it comes to final WC selection it may be one of McReight or Hooper that misses out and both Gamble & Samu go.

I also wonder how much of an eye Eddie has to the future. No doubt Eddie wants and needs to win some games, but like the French in 2019 RWC, how much does Eddie look to possibilities that might only play in the wider squad, pool stages but have potential. He will say certain things to the media, but he's no fool. He'll know where things are at in terms of this teams possibility.

Players like Schoupp, Uelese and Vunivalu all have a project player vibe about them for me. Those three feel like players who have the physical attributes that could differentiate them but are a reasonable way off with the skills and game IQ. It's a shame Eddie didn't come in last year because I just feel like his timelines are too tight regardless of the rhetoric he spins.

 

[upthereds#!]

Apologies if there is a Bledisloe thread

1. Slipper 2. Porecki 3. Ala'alatoa
4. Arnold 5. Skelton
6. Holloway 8. Valetini 7. Hoops
9. White 10. Quade 11. Koroibete 12. Kerevi 13. Peree 14. Markymark 15. Kellaway
16. Uelese 17. Bell 18. Tupou 19. Philip 20. Leota 21. Mcdermott 22. Gordon 23. Petaia

Could easily see Leota @ 6 and Gleeson @ 20

 

[A mutterer]

2 of the 3 Tests he started last year were against the All Blacks and in both those games, according to the guys on this forum anyway, he was the best Wallaby on the field. Even with 5 missed tackles. And it wasn't just GAGR. Almost every rugby journalist also rated him as the best Wallaby on the day.

I don't know if Michael Hooper has ever been rated as the best Wallaby on the park against the ABs on this forum but definitely not in the last 2 years or so. So you can think I'm grossly overstating his output but then so is everyone here who voted him twice as the GAGR Wallaby of the game in consecutive outings.

Historically, Hooper has started untold more games than Samu so, like Gill and McMahon before him, we will never know how good he might have been because regardless of how well he plays, he will never get a proper shot at being the starting 7.

He was good in his finshers role.

However, Nick Bishop's analysis springs to mind every time someone talks his 7 ability up.

 

[stillmissit]

They need to play games or drop out of selection contention, it's that simple. Bell and Tupou are a special case given they're so much better than the next man up.

There is no use cotton-wooling half the team until the RWC because you can take it to the bank; they will be exposed. I have said this for months, too much hope is being put into too many injured players that aren't close to match fit.

DD, when that is the best you can do, just do it. These guys apart from Kerevi are all in their 20's and recover quicker than you think. They have the best care and fitness development to overcome injuries. They will either be better for it or everybody will know. The only one I am concerned about is Tupoa who, according to reports didn't follow his rehab plan. Looked slow but OK in Aus A.

 

[stillmissit]

Complain all you want, but both Eddie and Rennie clearly showed they did not value his type of playstyle.

Playing how Samu plays means, if you don't get a lot of wide channel ball, you're not going to be seen as being effective. With a lighter 7 in Hooper or McReight, you can't afford another forward who doesn't have a strong carrying game at 6/8.

Ignto, I disagree. He is not always in the wide channel but what he does do very well, which others don't, is support the runner with some ability to protect or set up the breakdown. He can also take the ball with some speed and be a building block for tries. We currently are poor in the area he is good at not BobbyV, or any of the pack can do that. McRight and to a lesser extent Hooper can support and take the ball onwards but don't have the weight to do the breakdown job necessary. I think we will miss him against the AB's as they relentlessly work at turning our ball over.

The best solution for a win is for all of the pack to take this as if it was their last game for the Wallabies. This might also galvanise them for the RWC as they certainly need it. They are playing like a bunch of individuals and that is a recipe for failure.

 

[stillmissit]

Most complete 7 is an interesting term because I'd argue Pocock wasn't a complete 7, although he was still the best in the world because he was just so good at pilfering. If rodha means the best at pilfering, that is actually Reimer although he seems to be lacking in just about every other area.

The perfect 7 was George Smith. Pocock's selection forced him overseas. Pocock was a very good 7 and better than Hooper any day of the week. He got slower during his last season or two. What disgusted me with Pocock was the rest of the pack standing in the D whilst he got his neck wrung. No self-respecting pack in my day would allow one of their own to take this kind of punishment time and again.

 

[fatprop]

2 of the 3 Tests he started last year were against the All Blacks and in both those games, according to the guys on this forum anyway, he was the best Wallaby on the field. Even with 5 missed tackles. And it wasn't just GAGR. Almost every rugby journalist also rated him as the best Wallaby on the day.

I don't know if Michael Hooper has ever been rated as the best Wallaby on the park against the ABs on this forum but definitely not in the last 2 years or so. So you can think I'm grossly overstating his output but then so is everyone here who voted him twice as the GAGR Wallaby of the game in consecutive outings.

Historically, Hooper has started untold more games than Samu so, like Gill and McMahon before him, we will never know how good he might have been because regardless of how well he plays, he will never get a proper shot at being the starting 7.

Samu hasn't played well this year, he was very good last season

He looks great playing his game, but that is playing the wide flanker role, I don't think that role is something Jones is budgeting for

 

[stillmissit]

The recalling of McMahon was so bizarre

Bloke basically used R.A. for a plane ticket lol

Bloody stupid statement, I suppose he had insider influence ???????

 

[SouthernX]

Bloody stupid statement, I suppose he had insider influence ???????

Some of these Giteau law players have been absolutely non existent when they join the national setup…. I think it’s a fair statement to say someone is using RA as a free ticket home if their game is not up to scratch.

Tbh - I don’t see Kerevi and Cooper being difference makers - they are in this team on reputation only In my eyes. koribete is the only one with a bit of chop but even then would we say 2023 has seemed like a bit of a down year Thus far on the international stage