Wallabies - a changing of the guard

[lewisr]

I suspect Link will put Cooper in the Front line but not in the 10 Channel as Dingo did with O'Connor later on in the Lions series.

But this all depends on who is selected at 15 and whether he sees them as having equivalent counter attacking ability as Quade. It may be that we see Folau back at 15 with Moggy on the wing or Vice Versa and both those blokes are awesome at running it back and tearing teams to shreds. Plus Mogg, like Cooper, is not the strongest defensive player so it would just be stupid to swap them.

Mogg with his boot also offers a massive boost. As does a Nick White substitution if needed late in the game. He has a bigger, if less accurate boot than Sanchez.

 

[Scoey]

When they have a good defensive reputation it's saving them for attack. When they have a bad one it's hiding them from defense.

BINGO! Beat me to it. DC can defend, no question. He's being saved for attack. Cruden on the other hand is just as frail as Cooper in some aspects of his game. I'm not sure why he doesn't come under as close scrutiny. In saying that, QC (Quade Cooper) and Cruden are still developing. I'm sure they'll both improve with the years.

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

It's only taken 5 pages for this discussion thread to turn into an outright Quade Cooper debate.

There are many more important positions in a rugby team.

THP? Openside? No.8?

Lets maintain this thread to cover a sectrum of positional debates rather than another QC (Quade Cooper) debatefest.

 

[The Red Baron]

As I said earlier, a quality THP and 1-2 reliable kickers are a must.

I fear Alexander experienced his Matt Dunning moment on Saturday. So who do we have in the system that can be developed into a rock solid THP? Getting around the park is a bonus - I want a THP that lives and breathes scrums. I want a THP that has cauliflower ears which are viewed as badges of honour.

But failing that, lets look at who we have: Slipper, Kepu, Ryan (he is a tighthead, isnt he?), who else is there? I am not counting Palmer as he is going overseas, and I don't think we'll see Alexander back as Tighthead, unless he shows some drastic improvement at scrum time.

 

[Braveheart81]

But failing that, lets look at who we have: Slipper, Kepu, Ryan (he is a tighthead, isnt he?), who else is there?

That is it really. Kepu is the strongest scrummager of the three but weakest around the field out of them. I thought his work rate and effectiveness against the Lions was pretty good though.

Realistically, all three are young and still several years away from their peak.

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[The Red Baron]

I have a soft spot for Paddy Ryan though. If nothing else, he looks like a prop. Half the battle is won!

 

[Joe Blow]

It is a little harsh on Alexander. He was doing pretty well right up until the last test and Kepu was not much better when he came on.
It will be interesting to see how the new engage sequence affects the scrum. Are they going to be able to get the pill in and out before they come under pressure more easily?
For mine Slipper would be our best TH prospect but there is not much chance he will play there for Qld. He is becoming a big lump and may be a very good anchor for our pack. Ryan looks to be extremely strong and hopefully Link and others will be able to refine his technique.
I would be very surprised if Alexander was not named in the Links first squad. We need 4 able props in each test 23 and Alexander offers a lot for a test prop, particularly if we are playing an up tempo game and he replaces a starter late in a game.

 

[It is what it is]

The ARU, under Pulver's leadership have made a decisive and correct call in changing the Wallaby coach.
Pulver maybe needs to be more measured in his media comments though.
His comment that "The Wallabies just hadn't turned up" for the 3rd Test decider must have been offensive to many of the Wallabies who tried their hearts out and busted their arses in that match. Did Horwill, Genia, Mowen and Moore not turn up ???
His flippant comment about rugby league and Campbelltown only serves to reinforce the snobby elitist lower north shore perception of those running our game.
Be inclusive and talk up rugby, but DON'T talk down other sports when you're the CEO of rugby union.

 

[scaraby]

Link is one of the great pragmatic coaches, if he thinks Cooper is the best test option, he will make the selection compromises to cover for his clear and obvious weaknesses.

At the Reds that means selecting someone to tackle for him so he could move to 15 in defence for "counter attack".

Deans went through the same dilemma when he wore out Digby as Cooper moved to "defend" on the wing until the ABs isolated Cooper and tore him a new one.

So who does he select for that defensive role in the Wobs?

If Link's conventional approach of having him move to 15 is the prime option, who does pick as the "tackler?"

The favourite 15 options would be Mogg or Folau or Beale - they would be wasted as they are all known primarily for their attacking prowess.

You would think To'omua @ 15, he would be the best defensive option to do Cooper's work

Folau has no defensive issues anymore at 15. He is now one of the best 1 on 1s around.

 

[Ash]

Regarding Cooper, he actually has defended in the line this year for a couple of games. I actually felt sorry for Link in this regard - he was still copping criticism for Cooper defending at fullback the day after one of the games in SA (the first one, I think, against the Cheetahs?) where Cooper defended in the line.

Reds games where Morahan played fullback, Cooper defended in the line. Reds games where Lucas or Lance played fullback, Cooper defended at fullback. Cooper actually defended OK in the line, better than he did at fullback in some games anyway.

Regarding some other positions. I don't think there will be too many wholesale changes at this stage.

Mowen will remain at 6, Horwill at TH lock, Robinson at LHP, Mowen at blindside. I'm skipping the THP as there's plenty of discussion there.

I think Palu will remain at 8, but will likely be replaced with 20 or 30 to go. Palu was one of the better players in the third test, plenty of tackles, and got over the advantage line, made some impact.

I'd tip Gill to replace Hooper, with Hooper on the bench.

Locks are interesting. The RC squad can only carry 4 really, and one will be Horwill, and I think one should be 3M as a bench 6/lock.

3M would be my ideal bench lock, able to come on at either 6 or LH lock. He can carry, has a high work rate, good jumper, and abrasive. Good impact from the bench, assuming he is fit.

Simmons will likely drop from the matchday squad, I'd say. The last two games Simmons was fine, but doesn't provide any real impact off the bench. You either start Simmons, or leave him out of the matchday squad, so for me it's Simmons v Douglas for the starting position, and maybe the squad.

Douglas I am unsure of. Bit of a disappointing series against the Lions, the second test Douglas was really awful, third test he was very average. I'd still have Douglas as my preferred locking partner to Horwill at this stage, but only just. If Douglas doesn't perform early in the RC, he'd be dropped.

I'd like to see another lock added, this means we need to lose one from the squad, so for me Simmons would be unlucky. I'd like to see Pyle given a shot, assuming he's fit, or Carter. That gives us Horwill and Douglas (or Carter) as the TH locks, and Pyle (if not Carter) and 3M as LH locks. Fardy misses out as I think Carter and Pyle are better propositions and both are a lot younger - Fardy will be 31 for the next RWC.

What will Link do? I think he might keep the current squad of locks unchanged, actually. Can't see him dropping Simmons at this stage.

Would love to see at least one of, or both of, Carter and Pyle on the EOYT though.

 

[scaraby]

I suspect Link will put Cooper in the Front line but not in the 10 Channel as Dingo did with O'Connor later on in the Lions series.

But this all depends on who is selected at 15 and whether he sees them as having equivalent counter attacking ability as Quade. It may be that we see Folau back at 15 with Moggy on the wing or Vice Versa and both those blokes are awesome at running it back and tearing teams to shreds. Plus Mogg, like Cooper, is not the strongest defensive player so it would just be stupid to swap them.

Mogg with his boot also offers a massive boost. As does a Nick White substitution if needed late in the game. He has a bigger, if less accurate boot than Sanchez.

like it ......................always wanted to see Folau at 15 and Mogg at left wing chipping into the bottom left corner and chasing. Need to fix up our 5 Mtr line out and rolling maul.

 

[No4918]

Schatz could be a big winner out of this. If Palu is on the way out and McKenzie opts to go for a higher workrate in the backrow it could be he will play Schatz at 6, Gill 7 and Mowen 8. He has spoken about the merits of smaller backrow players and the sizes are comparable with the AB's such as Read.

 

[lewisr]

Schatz could be a big winner out of this. If Palu is on the way out and McKenzie opts to go for a higher workrate in the backrow it could be he will play Schatz at 6, Gill 7 and Mowen 8. He has spoken about the merits of smaller backrow players and the sizes are comparable with the AB's such as Read.

Schatz has gotten bigger this year, hasn't he? Or is it just that standing next to Quirky puts things in perspective? hahaha. Nah I think in the long run Higgers will be straight back into the fold and we will have a very mobile back row in Mowen, Higgers, Pocock/Gill/Hooper.

 

[Ado Tornado]

Schatz has gotten bigger this year, hasn't he? Or is it just that standing next to Quirky puts things in perspective? hahaha. Nah I think in the long run Higgers will be straight back into the fold and we will have a very mobile back row in Mowen, Higgers, Pocock/Gill/Hooper.

I doubt very much that he will go with what's been on show over the last 3 weeks. He will want a stronger more abrasive pack that are prepared to die for the jersey and that could not only mean Shatz, but also guys like Quirk and the Madness could come into contention along with a returning Higgers and Pocock. In the backs, no doubt Quade will be the happiest bloke in Australia today, but I wouldn't ming betting he will start looking at the young blokes with talent, speed and most importantly size. Folau and Mogg are obvious choices, but we might just see others like the 105kg and 6ft 5 Kuridrani in the green and gold too.

 

[Braveheart81]

I would be really surprised to see Quirk or Schatz get a run in the Rugby Championship.

I don't think they have the consistency in Super Rugby yet to suggest that they'd be better replacements than the players who were in the squad for the Lions tour.

I'd guess that outside of Cooper coming in at 10 and a few changes on the fringes of the squad we'll see a pretty similar side for the first Bledisloe.

With less than 6 weeks notice and still a Super Rugby season to finish, I doubt McKenzie will be trying to reinvent the wheel prior to the Rugby Championship.

If he wants to make significant changes to the Wallabies squad I think he will wait until the EOYT at which point he will have had a chance to work with the Wallabies through seven tests and determine who should stay and who should go.

 

[Gnostic]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) miss the squad.

 

[Zinzan]

Not sure why everyone talks about To'omua as next wallabies 10....he's a great defender, excellent general play kicker however very tunnel vision in attack. Jake White obviously loves him because he is closest thing to a boring South African fly half, he basically fits the berrick Barnes mould. If you want creativity and game control i'd suggest we look else where. I doubt link will want just a 'kick the ball away 10' who can tackle.

 

[Brumby Runner]

So Slipper is crap now?








Alexander didn't turn crap overnight

No - Slipper is not crap now. I see him as our best No 3 option. Better than Benny A at scrum time, much better than Kepu/Ryan around the park.

I have always thought Benny A had a tough assignment at No 3. He is a better No 1 and imo should have been used as the replacement No 1 on the bench.

 

[Zinzan]

Also just to throw my 2c in....I believe Robbie Deans did a great job to build depth in aust rugby, due to poor succession planning by coaches before him who had the likes of gregan, larkham, Latham, mortlock in their sides....they are the ones who let aust rugby down...They failed to blood new players for the future. We now have depth in most areas with nice balance of old & the new(younger players with test exp & maturing nicely). Robbie had to try & blood and compete with ABs during their legends of AB rugby phase(mccaw, DC, read, kaino, thorn etc)We are close to our period thanks to Deans....good that an Aussie will be in charge during this period however it was 5years of building from Deans that we can credit for this.
Bring on the new era....go the Wallabies!!

 

[Slim 293]

I doubt link will want just a 'kick the ball away 10' who can tackle.

He wants a 'kick the ball away 10' who can't tackle?