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Wallabies v All Blacks III in Brisvegas

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naza

Alan Cameron (40)
A bit over your boring :fishing expeditions guys. We didn't lose this due to Palu or Moore.

The loss boiled down to playing dumb football. The Wallabies strength in recent years has been playing smart rugby. With our guys taking dumb options, and our defence dropping in standard with Muggleton gone, we're struggling a bit.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Sorry manne, simply not good enough. thought you would take this one with the 17-7 lead and then some Coke Tin soft stuff. Congrats to the Blacks & their supporters.

Still a bit heart broken about the Bokke woodspoon title. Thought they deserve a bit better after watching this one.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
naza said:
A bit over your boring :fishing expeditions guys. We didn't lose this due to Palu or Moore.

The loss boiled down to playing dumb football. The Wallabies strength in recent years has been playing smart rugby. With our guys taking dumb options, and our defence dropping in standard with Muggleton gone, we're struggling a bit.

Mate, we are not fishing. IMO they both played badly. But I never said they were the sole reason why we lost the game.

We did play dumb footy, and our decision making at crucial times let us down. This is due to the games played by our captain (who I thought was quiet), our halfback and our 5/8.
 

naza

Alan Cameron (40)
That just blows me away. Moore was terrific. Our lineout was on song and our scrum rock solid. His workrate was terrific. I see that the vast majority of guys on Planet Rugby gave him points (ie: being in their top 3 players) for their MOTM, so I assume either you don't know WTF you're talking about or you're just on a mission to troll. Which is confirmed by your criticism of Palu and you failing to mention Elsom mailing in another anaemic performance AGAIN.

Inside backs was the crux of the problem though. And not one we have any immediate answers to.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
naza said:
That just blows me away. Moore was terrific. Our lineout was on song and our scrum rock solid. His workrate was terrific. I see that the vast majority of guys on Planet Rugby gave him points (ie: being in their top 3 players) for their MOTM, so I assume either you don't know WTF you're talking about or you're just on a mission to troll. Which is confirmed by your criticism of Palu and you failing to mention Elsom mailing in another anaemic performance AGAIN.

Yeah Elsom was quiet. Poor, even. But can you name for me one thing (individual incident) that Moore did well? Yes he threw well and yes the scrum was solid (more due to having Baxter back at THP and MMM out of the 2nd row), but can you name me one thing he did in general play- and don't just say 'his workrate was high'- I want an individual incident. Now I will tell you why I think he played badly (for the third time):

1. Missed the tackle on Cowan which led to the ABs first try.
2. Gave away at least 5 free kicks at crucial points, most of them stupid (I can remember at lest 3 in from the sides, and one stupid offside).
3. Rarely had the ball in hand (usually his strength), and when he did was fairly innefectual. Made no big hits.

He was not our worst player (Cordingley takes that honour), but I would have him on the bottom five, because it was way below what we know he is capable of.

And just because people on PR think it it doesn't mean I am an idiot- obviously they, like you, are so keen to talk up Moore that they overlook what he actually did on the field. He is a great player, but just not tonight.
 

Cutter

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
There are 2 minutes to go in the deciding game of the Tri-nations 2008. Oz need to win to keep the Bledisloe alive as well and, having just scored a try to leave the score difference at 4 points, its game on. The ABs kick deep and from the first phase Giteau...kicks it back to the ABs. Insane. A minute later, after the ABs have run down the clock by picking and driving close in, George Smith somehow makes a turnover and the Wallabies play with a bit of width to work their way up to near the AB 22. A Wallaby takes it into the teeth of the tiring AB defence and the Wallaby forwards are no where to be seen. The hungrier ABs pile over the top, win the turnover and kick it out.

Well done ABs. Watched it with a kiwi mate and apart from 10-15 mins towards the end when he felt comfortable, we were both thinking the worst for most of the game.

ABs dominated the breakdown I thought. Even though we had a lot of possession, McCaw et al won a few turnovers and, crucially, slowed our ball down big time. I thought that was the difference. Given we only had one ball player, with slow ball, we werent asking enough questions of the very good Black defence. Greg Martin said it in his interview with McCaw, but for me, the story of the game was the last breakdown where we just didnt have numbers. There were probably more than a dozen times during the game where we didnt have numbers at the ruck.

Elsom did nothing. If there were a test next week, I would play Brown at 6 and Palu at 8. I dont blame George Smith for the breakdown woes. He was there all night. Both Smith and McCaw had good games I thought. They cancelled each other out to a certain extent although Smith won the turnover right at the end which gave Oz a chance to attack one last time.

Can anyone explain why, with a minute and a half to go, Giteau kicked it away? It wasnt a territory kick to try to win the ABs lineout throw, it was a horrible midfield bomb that landed closer to our 22 than the halfway. I agree with LG a little that the Oz gameplan is not right at the moment. Giteau and, to a degree, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) look confused about whether they should be running or kicking. Their first option often seems to be to kick it. If that is the Deans way, I dont like it. I think Giteau is feeling the pressure of being the only creative player in the backline and this led to the stupid pass and some poor decision making. He is still our best option at 10 though and laid on a couple of good tries.

For the ABs, apart from the backrow, Woodcock, Weepu, Carter, Smith, Mils and Kahui were good I thought. Donald injected a bit of pace and surprised me. Thorn was quiet but seemed to be working hard.

For Oz, Moore was good in the set piece but made some mistakes in open play and was lucky not to get a yellow for repeated stupidity. Baxter and Robinson were good, both locks were good, Smith and Brown were good, Cross, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Hynes were good. Mortlock was out of position but went ok (big hit on Nonu), Tuqiri was quiet and didnt go looking for work, Giteau mixed the sublime with the insane, Cordingley was so slow to clear the ball it was absurd, Elsom went missing (yeah, yeah, I know he does all the things you dont see...right) and Palu was mixed during his time on the field (I cant forgive him for bombing that try).

Mortlock was shown up in defence by Carter. Cross missed the tackle (which was a shocker because he got the hit on) but Mortlock was beaten on the outside and made Cross come in to start with. That was Mortlock's defensive error.

I would have brought Sheehan on but I think Deans was a little bit snookered by his bench. McMeniman cant scrummage as a lock. If he brought Waugh on, it would have had to have been for Sharpe but MMM would have weakened the scrum. Dunning would also have weakened the scrum and Baxter was playing well. After Sheehan came on, if there had been an injury in the backs, Mitchell was the only replacement. For those (probably incoherent) reasons, the only change I would have made that Deans didnt was Sheehan for Cordingley at about 60mins. Mumm would have been a better bench option than MMM because he can scrum but that's a selection issue rather than a replacement one.

We went better than I thought we would and I am starting to think that some of these guys are actually good international players. For example, Hynes, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Cross, Barnes and Burgess are now players I feel ok to good about seeing them run out for us. In the forwards, Robinson, Moore, Horwill, Mumm and Brown have developed. Baxter has also surprised me. I think the Wobs have improved this season.

My mate said at the end of the game that anyone could have won it. That is true, but for the last 6 or 7 years its been the ABs that have won it. That is the difference at the moment. The 2006 Bledisloe in Brisbane, this one...games we could have won but lost. Its an important psychological edge the ABs have at the moment.

All in all, an enjoyable 3N which threw up a few surprises. I hope now that we all go North and show the 6N teams the wrong end of the scoreboard.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
Now settled down, a bottle of 03 Barossa Valley shiraz mataro grenache has helped me digest the result. First of all, congratulations New Zealand, well played, a fitting result. My NZ grandmother remains comfortable in her grave. Bugger.

Competition at the breakdown defines NZ rugby and so it proved tonight. There were too many times Al Baxter, among others, took the opportunity to have a good Captain Cook at proceedings from the best vantage point in the stadium: right next to said breakdown. How many times did the Oz forwards counter ruck the ABs off the pill? About nil. Until we learn to commit numbers and ferocity at the breakdown our (my) Kiwi cousins will continue to win the close ones.

Nevertheless, a great game of rugby with the result in doubt until the final whistle. It doesn't get much better.
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
Well said Cutter. I went to the game but unfortunately sat behind some total tossers who insisted on standing up all the time and stuffed it for everyone behind them. I am still deciding whether to watch it again as I am a bit dissapointed with the ... Aimlessness(?) of our play.

I would also like to point out again to all those calling for Barnes head before he was injured remember these games without him!
 
T

Turban

Guest
I blame sharpe, he did some stupid shit that lead to the 3rd AB try and then the 4th. Not sure how the fuck anyone could be happy with Palu and while our forwards did "okay" we still got fucked over, how many time did the ball go to static runners, or guys barely at walking pace. The scrum got lucky, we collapsed almost every fucking one. Sharpe did impress me in other facets of his play but with the AB's hot on attack and a Wallaby turnover where we made good ground he took the tackle then tried to free his arms and lost the ball. THe woodcock try, how the fuck did we not get that fucking ball when it was loose?

We had that game, we had it in the bag and we just fucking gave it away. Cross may have missed a tackle but he did fucking well, Brown ditto. Thank god he's had a chance to play, because we need to get rid of Wycliff Palu. He is an impact sub at best.

Cordingly was shit as expected, dare I say had we started with Burgess we may have won. Dunno but I hate to think about him starting anymore tests.

God i'm dissapointed at least vs SA we were never in it, but tonight we had it, one hand on the fucking trophey and let go. The AB's took every chance we gave them and we didn't take any.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
Really high quality game, exciting game, players out on their feet, what more can we ask?

Well, a couple of things, actually. The last ruck of the night said it all. I was screaming "GET UP HIM" at the Leura Golf CLub giant screen. Which was shorthand for "why are all you piggies lining up for the pass when you should be cleaning out?" The forwards did well in the scrum (really well, in fact) and lineout, but lost the ruck pretty comprehensively.

I'm not going to join the backs-bashing. I thought they were at least as good as their opposites, with the exception of Carter who is the world's best back. He outplayed Giteau as a 10 then dropped back and outplayed AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as a 15.

In conclusion: the 2008 Wallabies would carve up the 2007 model.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
naza said:
Our tight 5 played great and all our best (Sharpe, Horwill, Moore, Baxter) came from the tight 5.

You forgot Brown. He was streets ahead of anyone on the park. Hard, straight, fearless running. Never tried a sidestep or any of that shit that some of our regular forwards have tried of late. As in the S14, the Kiwi sides didn't know what to do with this bloke. Made more metres in this game than I've seen a loose forward make in quite a while against the ABs, in close or out wide. He's like Hoiles, but good.


naza said:
George Smith. And the chip kick. Its just a bad horror movie. NTA, let me know when you want to pay a visit to Mr Smith, I have a backlog of uppercuts to deliver to this twit.

And he didn't do much else to his usual standard - turnovers etc as usual all nullified by two stupid chip/grubber kicks.


I think Moore was good in almost every aspect of his game BUT he gave away two full-arm penalties at the ruck, a couple of shortarms as well, and then got us marched 10m by throwing the ball into an ABs head after the whistle had gone (generally a move I applaud). Not a good look when the simple game plan against the ABs is to minimise your mistakes.

The backs did some stupid things. I nearly popped a ventricle when Giteau went across field, saw he was (A) out of space; and (B) that Lote had cut inside but was too far away, and yet threw the pass anyway. Christ Al-Fucking-Mighty he needs a bullet.

Turbs - I thought Sharpe had about his best game at Wallaby level, which is not saying a lot I suppose. The moment at which he returned to his former self was after the ball popped loose at an AB ruck. He gathers, giraffes off upfield without anyone near him. At least fucking kick it!

But our T5 were generally good I thought. Got a bit of a workout in the scrum but at the end Freier came on and we smashed them through 90 to get the ball we needed. Nice. All the Baxter critics can fuck right off along with the Blake supporters.
 

Lindommer

Steve Williams (59)
Staff member
One aspect of the match which Henry got over Deans was the use of his bench. The ABs got some ascendancy and momentum from the 60 to 75 minute mark which ended up being the difference. Deans was somewhat reactionary in the use of his bench. One thing he did poorly: leaving Cordingley on for the entire match. For all his faults Sheehan has played quite well when he's come off the bench this year; he's retreated to doing the simple half-back things rather than fighting forwards and trying to run the plays and win games on his own.

Another thing: a new coach has every right to pick his support staff but am I the only one who thinks dispensing with Muggleton's services was a mistake? Our defence has been our strong point for the last ten years but this year tries have been scored against us when we looked as if there was no defensive structure.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Agree Lindommer - we had a bench there to take advantage of when the ABs started to get some phases together. We could have dented their momentum right then and there, but didn't put the fresh legs on. Mitchell, Waugh, and Sheehan could have all added to the mix, just like Brown did for half a game. Mitchell's pace especially could have been an asset. McMeniman might have been useful earlier on too.
 

Virgil

Larry Dwyer (12)
Matt Giteau, great player would walk into the ABs.
Great 2nd 5.
Good 1st 5. Maybe looks better with Barnes at 12?
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
Similar to how Carter was in his earlier years I reckon virg - always looked more solid with Mauger taking some of the heat off.
 

Virgil

Larry Dwyer (12)
NTA said:
Similar to how Carter was in his earlier years I reckon virg - always looked more solid with Mauger taking some of the heat off.

True i guess, Carter just seved his apprenticeship at 12, kinda like Lynagh did at the start of his career. But you always knew he would be playing at 10 sooner then later. While Gits has had a couple of very good games at 10 this year, just think he looks more natural at 12.

But then who else do you have?
 

naza

Alan Cameron (40)
NTA said:
All the Baxter critics can fuck right off along with the Blake supporters.

Al Baxter has come good ! Oh wait, he's 31. Geez, that was worth the wait wasn't it ?
 

naza

Alan Cameron (40)
Virgil said:
NTA said:
Similar to how Carter was in his earlier years I reckon virg - always looked more solid with Mauger taking some of the heat off.

True i guess, Carter just seved his apprenticeship at 12, kinda like Lynagh did at the start of his career. But you always knew he would be playing at 10 sooner then later. While Gits has had a couple of very good games at 10 this year, just think he looks more natural at 12.

But then who else do you have?

Nobody. We simply do not have the talent. We don't have a true fullback either.

Quite frustrating that the Kiwis can lose so many players overseas and still have superior talent.
 
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