Wallabies v Barbarians - 1/11/14 (Twickenham)

[chasmac]

I'm looking forward to seeing how Cooper operates under Cheika.
I rate Foley for all he brings and I rated Cooper on last years Tour.
Good option to give Genia and Cooper a start for this game.

 

[chasmac]

WRT the locks.
Simmons has come a long way in the last 2 years. He has improved in many areas of his game. Never likely to be ultra dynamic with his running game but this isn't a reason to drop him.
I'm pretty sure Carter will improve at the same rate as Simmons and this can only be good for the future.
If Skelton can evolve at the same rate as the other 2 then we should be in pretty good shape in the locks.
Horwill does seem to have lost some firepower since his injury but he still contributes alot to the team.
As Pfitzy said, they are not Brodie Rettallick. But they have matched him at times.
We might have to endure some time where our locks are workmanlike rather than a focal point for a gameplan.
If you could put some Simmons skills into Skelton and some Horwill skills into Carter then we would bust some Dirty Stinkin Kiwis...

 

[Marcelo]

for all that say Speight is the "saviour' I hope you sre right. Poor bastard has so much pressure on him ATM. If he scores tries then champion etc etc but if he doesn;t go as well then blokes will be running for cover - people will say he's a great Super 15 player but chokes at the top end. Maybe a bit like Moggy.

I just hope he goes well. It is a good game for him to start.

My money is on the bloke to have a beauty.

A winger never could be "the saviour", but he was the best Aussie winger in the last Super Rugby seasons. Then it's a good thing for the team, Horne and Tomane have proven that they aren't international level players.

Speight and JOC (James O'Connor) should be the starting wingers in the next WC, in an ideal context

 

[boyo]

Saviour/messiah?

 

[Sully]

I think Horwill can be s force again. It could take 18 months or more to get that leg up to scratch.

 

[Braveheart81]

Hasn't Horwill been pretty much injury free for two years now?

His form has been steadily improving this year so I don't doubt that he's still got some way to go to get back towards whatever his peak is now.

 

[Blue]

Furque me there's a lot of futebol to be watching the next couple of weeks.

 

[Ruggo]

I think Horwill can be s force again. It could take 18 months or more to get that leg up to scratch.

I thought he looked good against the Argies in what else was a terrible night.

I think one thing forgoton about Horwill is that before this one, he never really has had a form slump in his career. I think it's fair to say that in its self is a good measure. Horwill has set a high bar throughout his career.

One of the reasons I am a massive fan of his.

 

[Sully]

Hasn't Horwill been pretty much injury free for two years now?

His form has been steadily improving this year so I don't doubt that he's still got some way to go to get back towards whatever his peak is now.

Missed the start of this year due to that leg injury.

 

[TSR]

I'd disagree on a couple of points.....

Firstly, I wouldn't want to tamper with any of the formula that's made him so successful, inclduing effectively changing his position on the field which is the only position he's played for 4 seasons now...... how often have we seen him fend off defenders with his left hand and somehow get around them on the outside within inches of the right touchline......

Speight also goes looking for work, so he's actually scored a few tries for the Brumbies in the left hand corner......

Second, none of our other wing options, bar Tomane (who can play both sides anyways), are traditional wingers and they can be put on either side of the field without any disruption.

All fair points. I certainly didn't mean to imply that Speight just sits on his wing and doesn't chase the ball.

Your point about his fend is an interesting one - specialisation is so much more prevalent these days. But in saying that, I don't think we've reached a position where Speight (or any other winger) couldn't adapt.

But hey, no compliants from me if it all goes exactly as you suggest. I'm just hoping he gets through his first game unscathed and then goes from there.

 

[Braveheart81]

If Speight's natural fend is with his left hand and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s is with his right, surely that makes Speight the natural right winger and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) the left.

 

[Slim 293]

All fair points. I certainly didn't mean to imply that Speight just sits on his wing and doesn't chase the ball.

I didn't think you were, but just wanted to add that in there.......

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If Speight's natural fend is with his left hand and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s is with his right, surely that makes Speight the natural right winger and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) the left.

and no doubt neither has a left foot kick to bless himself with so we can leave that out of consideration

 

[Lee Grant]

There's definitely an argument that Luke Jones deserves more of a go but many would also suggest that he's more in the vein of Scott Fardy and would be better suited to 6 at test level.

Always was and will be. I've suggested it a few times myself.

In his school days he got shoved into the second row because there's seldom good tall timber in schools rugby - though he played some cracking rugby in rep games at 6 and even 8.

It was the same in Super Rugby where he operated well in the second row.

But as test player he shouldn't be picked as a starting lock as you indicate, and as I and others have mentioned a few times also in recent years, when people started talking about his test potential after he moved to Melbourne.

OK to play there from the bench in test matches though.
.

 

[Lee Grant]

[Caderyn Neville] He's a massive bloke with a huge engine, but he's not anything more than an average player at the moment.

Needs a bit of mongrel in my opinion; something that Simmons lacked early in his career - even early his test career.

In particular he needs to shift people, whether he's running with the ball, they're running with the ball, in counter-rucking and stopping the same from the other side - etc.

We need bruisers.
.

 

[Biffo]

Needs a bit of mongrel in my opinion; something that Simmons lacked early in his career - even early his test career.

In particular he needs to shift people, whether he's running with the ball, they're running with the ball, in counter-rucking and stopping the same from the other side - etc.

We need bruisers.
.

three pages of ramble and Mr Lee reduces the whole argument to three words.
well shrunk, Sir.

here's three more words:
who are they?

may we have some three-word answers, please?

 

[Dumbledore]

Needs a bit of mongrel in my opinion; something that Simmons lacked early in his career - even early his test career.

In particular he needs to shift people, whether he's running with the ball, they're running with the ball, in counter-rucking and stopping the same from the other side - etc.

We need bruisers.
.

Don't disagree. Needs to learn how to accelerate into contact IMO. It's something the South Africans do particularly well. They don't prop up and brace for contact at all, they just speed up and let the bodies fall where they will. Teach Neville to play with the reckless abandon of Potgieter and he might turn out alright.

 

[BDA]

Still a bit surprised that Scott Fardy has not been looked at as a lock. A back 5 of Simo, Fardy, Higgers, Hooper, Palu could be decent.

Re comments on expectation being too high for Speight, he is clearly the best winger we have in Australia. Only JOC (James O'Connor) would go close. Even then JOC (James O'Connor) offers something slightly different to Speight. Speight seems to be the first winger we've had since Sailor/Tuquri that is a genuine option to hit the ball into contact. Big and powerful. I reckon having a bloke like him in the backline will have a big impact on our team.

Earlier this year Kafe was talking about the idea that when the forwards aren't getting over the advantage line the backs can be used to get the team going forward, which assists a pack under pressure. We've seen how much of a positive effect Kuridrani is having on the team with his ability to get us over the advantage line. It's something that we've lacked since Mortlock exited. Speight offers something similar. With the likes of Folau, Speight and Kuridrani on the outside we are starting to develop a backline that will be able to consistently get us over the gain line. This will help the team play on the front foot even when the pack is struggling against the opposing pack.

 

[TSR]

If Speight's natural fend is with his left hand and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)'s is with his right, surely that makes Speight the natural right winger and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) the left.

Probably - although from memory, when AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has played on the wing he has mostly played on the right. I'm not 100% sure on that though. From memory, JOC (James O'Connor) has also played mostly on the right - though if memory serves me correct he was left wing vs the All Blacks last year wasn't he.

If I was Tomane I'd be making sure I was in Cheika's ear pointing out the others are all right side specialists and that changing wings is incredibly difficult.

 

[Viking]

Still a bit surprised that Scott Fardy has not been looked at as a lock. A back 5 of Simo, Fardy, Higgers, Hooper, Palu could be decent.

His scrummaging is very poor at lock. I see this as his only downside at lock. But it's a pretty big one.