Wallabies V Samoa - Test 2011

[Sully]

For the Wallabies we must select the best players. If they play for the best franchise then that's great, but they have to be the best. Selecting from the Reds, or the Tahs, or whoever did best that year, seriously misses the point. The big question is how to transfer the Reds attitude to test rugby, not their players.

You want the Faingaas, Samo;s and Robinson's attitude but you don't want to pick them! Hilarious.

 

[Scotty]

For the Wallabies we must select the best players. If they play for the best franchise then that's great, but they have to be the best. Selecting from the Reds, or the Tahs, or whoever did best that year, seriously misses the point. The big question is how to transfer the Reds attitude to test rugby, not their players.

What is the best way to transfer that attitude?

1. The coach of that team being involved
2. The leaders from that team also leading the wallabies
3. A good number of players from that team coming into the side

I don't think it is possible to transfer that attitude without at least two of the three from above happening and we know the coach isn't going to happen so that leaves us 2 and 3.

 

[Ruggo]

For the Wallabies we must select the best players. If they play for the best franchise then that's great, but they have to be the best. Selecting from the Reds, or the Tahs, or whoever did best that year, seriously misses the point. The big question is how to transfer the Reds attitude to test rugby, not their players.

The best players must be defined by form and attitutude, not reputation. The Reds players have carried those attributes and they represent the culture you speak of. Selecting the players is the only way to infect the Wallaby culture with that attitude. The problem is too many players are being picked on reputation. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Rocky and Vickerman are all good examples of this. For each of these players, there is a hard working and dedicated player who has missed the opportunity. With the exception of Rocky I highly respect these players but the hard truth is they don't deserve to be there on form and that Vickerman and Rocky have walked into the side without proving jack shit sends a negative message. That they play in positions that our depth is healthier than others makes it worse.

 

[DPK]

You want the Faingaas, Samo;s and Robinson's attitude but you don't want to pick them! Hilarious.

Really? I don't think it's too much to ask.

 

[barbarian]

Was having a look at the stats on SMH.

Things that stuck out to me:

- Pat McCabe is a clear statistical standout. Most runs, most rucks hit, second most tackles made. No missed tackles and only one turnover. Digby is probably next best.

- Best forwards in terms of workrate were Sharpe and Moore. Sharpe's lead the way in runs and rucks hit in the forwards despite only playing 50 minutes.

- Kepu's workrate was incredibly low for a prop who played 80. Alexander's was not much better.

- McCalman had a solid, error-free game. Good workrate.

- Mark Gerrard had a 0% tackle success rate- 4 attempted 4 missed. Rod Davies had 33%.

Never certain how reliable these stats are, if anyone has another source I would love to compare.

.

 

[Groucho]

You want the Faingaas, Samo;s and Robinson's attitude but you don't want to pick them! Hilarious.

Where did I say that? I'd pick Samo in a heartbeat. Robinson is potentially a good bench choice.

But that isn't the point. Much of the Reds success was drawn from the outstanding team dynamic they built, which resulted in them doing more with less experienced players. It's the team dynamic we need to upload to the Wallabies. To argue it is exclusive to that group is just fandom. Many teams in many sports have built the same kind of dynamic in the past. It is when you instill it in outstanding players that you have spectacular results.

It is highly unlikely that Robinson is ever going to be better than Pocock, Saia than Moore or Nau, or Anthony than JOC (James O'Connor) or Horne. Many of the Reds simply aren't our best players. But some of them are: Horwill, Genia, Cooper, Ioane. And others will be in the future! But to select the Reds en masse now for the Wallabies would simply be an admission of defeat, equivalent to saying that we haven't got the smarts to instill a winning culture in all the other Wallabies.

I don't think any of that is 'hilarious', by the way. I made what I meant to be a serious post, and one I thought was complimentary to your team. Let's both agree to drop the sarcasm.

 

[Groucho]

What is the best way to transfer that attitude?

1. The coach of that team being involved
2. The leaders from that team also leading the wallabies
3. A good number of players from that team coming into the side

I don't think it is possible to transfer that attitude without at least two of the three from above happening and we know the coach isn't going to happen so that leaves us 2 and 3.

But all that is true! Deans has said that Link has been involved all year. The Reds leaders are the Wallabies leaders: Horwill, Genia, Cooper. And there is a very solid Reds representation in the Wallabies squad.

 

[Groucho]

The best players must be defined by form and attitutude, not reputation. The Reds players have carried those attributes and they represent the culture you speak of. Selecting the players is the only way to infect the Wallaby culture with that attitude. The problem is too many players are being picked on reputation. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Rocky and Vickerman are all good examples of this. For each of these players, there is a hard working and dedicated player who has missed the opportunity. With the exception of Rocky I highly respect these players but the hard truth is they don't deserve to be there on form and that Vickerman and Rocky have walked into the side without proving jack shit sends a negative message. That they play in positions that our depth is healthier than others makes it worse.

All fair points, Ruggo. But, if selecting players is the only way to instill an attitude, then how did Link instill it in the first place?

 

[Groucho]

I'm pretty happy with that team. Simmons over Sharpe is a big call. I'd have had Samo at least on the bench. But it looks strong.

 

[Scotty]

But all that is true! Deans has said that Link has been involved all year. The Reds leaders are the Wallabies leaders: Horwill, Genia, Cooper. And there is a very solid Reds representation in the Wallabies squad.

The coach aside, I am implying a more drastic and important change to the leadership team to the wallabies.

Backs - Genia and Cooper are in the positions to be the leaders there - I just hope that Giteau's involvement doesn't upset the apple cart due to personality clashes.

Forwards - There is likely to be only one or two Reds, but Pocock, Sharpe and TPN are all seem to be made from the same leadership type material as Horwill is. I am not sure whether Elsom is - he certainly didn't lead from the front on the weekend.

Overall - Balance. Will it work with Elsom there? Only time will tell.

 

[Groucho]

The coach aside, I am implying a more drastic and important change to the leadership team to the wallabies.

Backs - Genia and Cooper are in the positions to be the leaders there - I just hope that Giteau's involvement doesn't upset the apple cart due to personality clashes.

Forwards - There is likely to be only one or two Reds, but Pocock, Sharpe and TPN are all seem to be made from the same leadership type material as Horwill is. I am not sure whether Elsom is - he certainly didn't lead from the front on the weekend.

Overall - Balance. Will it work with Elsom there? Only time will tell.

I'm certainly in the party that thinks Elsom is the main obstacle to a properly committed attitude. I'd much rather Horwill was captain, in part since it would also enable Elsom to be dropped if his form warrants it.

 

[liquor box]

Haha. Well you'd certainly get the dominant tackling backline you've been wanting though qwerty!

Maybe that is a great thing to have, when QC (Quade Cooper) can cut out 2 players using 25m passes either way then you have the option of distributing the ball to your wongers from the centre of the field without worrying if your centres dont have the ability to pass

 

[Athilnaur]

Was having a look at the stats

Never certain how reliable these stats are, if anyone has another source I would love to compare.

.

Pretty sure they are from here; rugby stats.com.au
I was looking at them yesterday, but the tackle counts were all wrong, had about 3 total. The tackle counts are fixed and the rest of the data looks unchanged to me. I am inclined to think the stats are good.

In fairness to Gerrard and Phipps they had a couple of mission impossible tackles. Tho I do recall a certain Gregan vs Lomu tackle...

 

[Riptide]

Where did I say that? I'd pick Samo in a heartbeat. Robinson is potentially a good bench choice.

But that isn't the point. Much of the Reds success was drawn from the outstanding team dynamic they built, which resulted in them doing more with less experienced players. It's the team dynamic we need to upload to the Wallabies. To argue it is exclusive to that group is just fandom. Many teams in many sports have built the same kind of dynamic in the past. It is when you instill it in outstanding players that you have spectacular results.

It is highly unlikely that Robinson is ever going to be better than Pocock, Saia than Moore or Nau, or Anthony than JOC (James O'Connor) or Horne. Many of the Reds simply aren't our best players. But some of them are: Horwill, Genia, Cooper, Ioane. And others will be in the future! But to select the Reds en masse now for the Wallabies would simply be an admission of defeat, equivalent to saying that we haven't got the smarts to instill a winning culture in all the other Wallabies.

I don't think any of that is 'hilarious', by the way. I made what I meant to be a serious post, and one I thought was complimentary to your team. Let's both agree to drop the sarcasm.

I couldn't agree more with your post. It's the team ethos, the club vibe, the entire set-up, the manner in which the coaching and admin staff and admin relate with the players and how each relate in turn with the fan base and even the sponsors and the media. It's not easily transferable.. mate-ships are but then there is the danger of cliques.

 

[Scotty]

Maybe that is a great thing to have, when QC (Quade Cooper) can cut out 2 players using 25m passes either way then you have the option of distributing the ball to your wongers from the centre of the field without worrying if your centres dont have the ability to pass

I love it when my balls swing a long way to my wonger.

 

[Ruggo]

All fair points, Ruggo. But, if selecting players is the only way to instill an attitude, then how did Link instill it in the first place?

The same way Robbie Deans has over the last three years. That is what has me scratching my head as Robbie Deans seems to be deviating from the philosiphy that has made him a good coach.

I don't think Link and Robbie are that far apart in their coaching styles.

I am a Robbie Deans supporter but the one thing that has rubbed me the wrong way during his tenure was the whole Rocky back from Europe saga. I think that damaged the Wallaby culture.

 

[Bullrush]

The same way Robbie Deans has over the last three years. That is what has me scratching my head as Robbie Deans seems to be deviating from the philosiphy that has made him a good coach.

I don't think Link and Robbie are that far apart in their coaching styles.

I am a Robbie Deans supporter but the one thing that has rubbed me the wrong way during his tenure was the whole Rocky back from Europe saga. I think that damaged the Wallaby culture.

I've just realised that history does repeat.......Rocky is Deans' new Rueben Thorne!!!!

 

[TheNextBigThing]

- McCalman had a solid, error-free game. Good workrate.
.

Also made most ms per minute and ms per run, most overall ms in the forwards despite only playing 3 quarters. Also had second most tackles, no missed tackles, no turnovers, second most rucks hit.

Would suggest his stats are just as good as Mccabe's and a mile ahead of any one else. Also aside from statistics, he was one of the few uncompromising players in contact which was one of the biggest criticisms the team has faced this week.

Good to see he kept his spot. It would have been easy to think that because we got out-muscled in the backrow, Mcalman should go for Samo but the issues were clearly elsewhere.

 

[mudskipper]

You're a little tough on Alexander he work rate was way higher than kepu... and more metres than moore

Australia Pos Mins Runs (m) Tack Offl. Kick T.Ass. L.Brk Ruck T/Ov. Miss
Sekope Kepu LHP 80 3 (12m) 2 0 0 0 0 3 0 0
Stephen Moore HOOK 80 9 (24m) 6 0 0 0 0 10 2 0
Ben Alexander THP 80 7 (29m) 3 0 0 0 0 7 0 0
Sitaleki Timani LCK1 80 4 (24m) 4 1 0 0 0 5 3 2
Nathan Sharpe LCK2 51 10 (37m) 4 0 0 0 0 10 2 1
Rocky Elsom BSFL 80 5 (35m) 5 2 0 0 0 4 0 1
Matthew Hodgson OSFL 51 5 (31m) 8 0 0 0 0 5 2 1
Ben McCalman NUM8 60 8 (55m) 6 0 0 0 0 8 0 0


and check out McCabe
Pat McCabe ICEN 80 12 (97m) 6 0 0 0 0 12 1 0

Was having a look at the stats on SMH.

Things that stuck out to me:

- Pat McCabe is a clear statistical standout. Most runs, most rucks hit, second most tackles made. No missed tackles and only one turnover. Digby is probably next best.

- Best forwards in terms of workrate were Sharpe and Moore. Sharpe's lead the way in runs and rucks hit in the forwards despite only playing 50 minutes.

- Kepu's workrate was incredibly low for a prop who played 80. Alexander's was not much better.

- McCalman had a solid, error-free game. Good workrate.

- Mark Gerrard had a 0% tackle success rate- 4 attempted 4 missed. Rod Davies had 33%.

Never certain how reliable these stats are, if anyone has another source I would love to compare.

.

 

[DPK]

Looks like Beale actually was wearing metal studs; they look pretty short though.