Wallabies v USA Eagles, 5th September, Soldier Field, Chicago

[Sully]

You can't start your reserve hooker. Well you can but it would be stupid to.
And no it's not obvious.

 

[Lindommer]

If Sio starts, say, against England there'll be a reserve LHP and hooker on the bench. Probably Slipper and TPN.

 

[Slim 293]

You can't start your reserve hooker. Well you can but it would be stupid to.
And no it's not obvious.

I don't think Blue was weighing into the injured hooker hypothetical scenario..........

So, in a full strength team Sio would obviously the first choice LH prop at the moment...............

But in a scenario where we are down to one hooker then we're screwed, as we are not only short a backup but then we have to bench our first choice LH prop to accommodate...........

Fingers crossed Moore and TPN both stay fit.

 

[Pfitzy]

They'll just have to bash the crap out of each other at least 48 hours before the game, then take it easy for the two days leading in

 

[Brumby Runner]

If Sio starts, say, against England there'll be a reserve LHP and hooker on the bench. Probably Slipper and TPN.

That's right @Lindommer, but what if TPN (or Moore for that matter) had picked up a minor injury in the preceeding game that kept him out of the England game. Sio would then be the backup hooker, and it would be foolish to start him at prop. Chances are, in that circumstance, that one of our best props will spend the whole match on the bench.

 

[Braveheart81]

If it came to that I think Cheika would start Slipper and have Sio on the bench but I doubt that he'd avoid bringing Sio on to replace Slipper before maybe being required at hooker at a later point in the match.

If worst came to worst and Sio got injured one of the props could pack a scrum at hooker. None of our props are going to say they are unable to pack at hooker and require uncontested scrums without the requisite number of injuries.

Clearly it would be troublesome if the situation presented itself but people are talking about it as if it is a sure thing that Sio is going to end up playing a crucial game at hooker.

People are also talking about James Slipper as if he's a massive step down from Sio.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

No. Sio plays in the 16 jersey, but comes on for Slipper at loosehead sometime between 55ish and 70 minutes depending on other factors. If the hooker then starts cramping, or gets injured or something, Toby comes on for the hooker and Sio switches one to the right.

Are you sure he can do that? Scrums went uncontested in SA v AB recently because the Bokke didn't have a designated replacement for one side or other of the scrum & I thought it then emerged that you have to name your reserve THP, LHP & hooker prior to kickoff & that once named for a particular position they can't come on in another. Never could find the relevant World Rugby reg online so relying on reports on the various rugby sites but that seemed to be the gist.

 

[Braveheart81]

Are you sure he can do that? Scrums went uncontested in SA v AB recently because the Bokke didn't have a designated replacement for one side or other of the scrum & I thought it then emerged that you have to name your reserve THP, LHP & hooker prior to kickoff & that once named for a particular position they can't come on in another. Never could find the relevant World Rugby reg online so relying on reports on the various rugby sites but that seemed to be the gist.

Part of the law says this:

(d) A suitably trained and experienced front row forward may start the match in another position.

It seems they got things mixed up in that match. Teams don't have to stipulate on the team sheet which position a bench front rower is playing, onlyt that they are FR (Front Row).

The lack of a THP came after both Jannie du Plessis was injured and Koch left the field under the blood rule. Nyakane who was the other reserve prop can play both sides so they should have continued to play contested scrums (and it would have been in South Africa's favour to do so). Realistically it should have been the Springboks choice as they had exhausted both THP so could have fairly argued for uncontested scrums. Likewise they could keep them contested by saying that they did have suitably trained players on the field in all front row positions.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^^^^^^ thanks for the clarification.

 

[Brumby Runner]

If it came to that I think Cheika would start Slipper and have Sio on the bench but I doubt that he'd avoid bringing Sio on to replace Slipper before maybe being required at hooker at a later point in the match.

If worst came to worst and Sio got injured one of the props could pack a scrum at hooker. None of our props are going to say they are unable to pack at hooker and require uncontested scrums without the requisite number of injuries.

Clearly it would be troublesome if the situation presented itself but people are talking about it as if it is a sure thing that Sio is going to end up playing a crucial game at hooker.

People are also talking about James Slipper as if he's a massive step down from Sio.

It is a scenario that none of us would like to see, but it's no good putting heads in the sand given the injury history of both Moore and TPN. All i'm saying is that it would be a much better strategy to have worked with Toby Smith to be the reserve hooker rather than Scott Sio. And it's the step down from Sio/Slipper to Smith in terms of test match experience that I see is the potential problem.

 

[Groucho]

I think that if Moore or TPN is injured, then Hanson will be drafted into the squad. We'd only play Sio as reserve hooker if Moore or TPN was injured inside the 48 hour replacement window, and even then, it's unlikely he'd spend much time in the position, if any. He can be reserve hooker while playing in his usual position on the field. He can start at loosehead and still be the reserve hooker.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Part of the law says this:

(d) A suitably trained and experienced front row forward may start the match in another position.

It seems they got things mixed up in that match. Teams don't have to stipulate on the team sheet which position a bench front rower is playing, onlyt that they are FR (Front Row).
.

Worth noting that this situation has since been clarified by world rugby, and for the WC at least you do have to name specific positions for your replacement and starting front row. There's more info in the scrum thread on here

Ruling: 5-2015

 

[KOB1987]

But they can nominate more than one position. For example it may say S.Sio - THP, LHP, Hooker

And it just says you have to nominate what front row positions players are suitably trained for, they don't have to be starting front rowers. E.g. (and I'm not suggesting this is correct) - D.Pocock - Hooker

I'd suspect that you'd mention ANYONE that is trained for a front row position.

 

[KOB1987]

I think that if Moore or TPN is injured, then Hanson will be drafted into the squad. We'd only play Sio as reserve hooker if Moore or TPN was injured inside the 48 hour replacement window, and even then, it's unlikely he'd spend much time in the position, if any. He can be reserve hooker while playing in his usual position on the field. He can start at loosehead and still be the reserve hooker.

Having just read the rules this is a true and pertinent point. There just needs to be at least one other in the 23 who can cover hooker if the starter goes down, they don't have to be on the bench.

 

[Pfitzy]

Having just read the rules this is a true and pertinent point. There just needs to be at least one other in the 23 who can cover hooker if the starter goes down, they don't have to be on the bench.

Let Pocock do it. Mad bastard can do everything else.

 

[Tomikin]

Let Pocock do it. Mad bastard can do everything else.

And he'd probably do it better then everyone else..

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