Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
Quick answer - yes Nic White is still the back up No 9 imo, and Foley is our starting No 10 until either To'omua or Cooper displace him, if that happens.
Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC
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Quick answer - yes Nic White is still the back up No 9 imo, and Foley is our starting No 10 until either To'omua or Cooper displace him, if that happens.
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I think White and Genia are fighting it out for the bench spot at this stage
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hammertimethere
Trevor Allan (34)
I do not and have never considered White to be Phipps back up. Genia is playing better footy currently in a fucking shithouse team.
I have been rather disappointed in White (and Carter) so far this season, sucks because I think he is (they) are very good player(s)
I have been rather disappointed in White (and Carter) so far this season, sucks because I think he is (they) are very good player(s)
BDA
Peter Johnson (47)
Just a few comments,
firstly, in terms of the Wallabies at the world cup, it doesn't really bother me how our Super teams go this season. whilst I genuinely expect the tahs and the Brumbies to make the finals, it wouldn't bother me too much if neither made the grand final (although I'd like to see an Aussie team win of course). Good and bad Super form doesn't necessarily translate to the national team. Obviously you want players to create a culture of winning but given that the majority of our players come from the tahs and the brumbies that's not really an issue.
From my point of view the object of this Super season for Australia is self preservation. Of the other serious Cup contenders we can least afford injuries to key personnel. Having no team in the finals is one less chance of losing a Kepu or a Moore for the test season. It also allows extra time for our players to get much needed rest (both SARU and NZ seem to be more active in resting players) and potentially gives our guys longer together as a team (which we need more than other sides).
Injuries has always been my biggest concern in terms of our world cup campaign. The depth in most positions (outside backs and no.7 aside) is shithouse. I hate to talk about injuries out of fear of jinxing us, but so far (touch wood) we're doing very well on the injury front.
Usually by this time of the season, we've already lost 1 or 2 blokes for the season. So far, our injuries have been minimal, and no player is yet to be ruled out of the test season.
Cooper - another 6 weeks?
To'omua - 4 to 6 weeks?
Sio - 4 to 6 weeks?
TKD - 6 weeks?
Weeks - 4 - 6 weeks?
(dont quote me on those injury lay-off times, just an estimate)
Of those injuries Coopers is obviously a bit touch and go, given his limited game time this season, but I expect all will be available for selection in the first test of the season, so nothing too bad on the injury front just yet.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
That's a fair point. Whilst I would like our Super franchises to be killing it and for the Wallabies to win TRC, it won't count for jack if we don't win in October.
BDA
Peter Johnson (47)
A few selection thoughts:-
--The White v Genia debate seems like a hot topic. White was woefully slow in his delivery on Friday. Really terrible. Genia was just ok i thought, but easily better than White.
I think generally the perceived form of the 9 and 10 of any team rests on how the team is performing. Generally the play-makers have things easier in a team that is performing well and it makes them look better. conversely playmakers in poorly performing teams are generally under pressure and are more likely to look ordinary. I'll temper that point by saying that there is obviously a "chicken or egg" situation, in that the cause of a poorly performing team is often contributed to the pivots, and vice versa.
I think overall White has looked better than Genia this season, no doubt. But he's playing in a team that is performing at a much higher standard. Genia on the other hand has worked hard (without being outstanding) in very hard circumstances. I don't think anyone would attribute the Reds performances down to Genia play; Genia appears to be doing his best behind a poorly performing pack, inside a make-shift 10.
The point I'm making is that saying "White is out performing Genia this season" and thus he should get the RW bench spot, is fraught with danger. Analyzing which player is better equipped for the bench spot is much more complex.
Genia looks to be in better form than he was last year. Hi running game appears to have returned and that is what has always made him such a solid test player in years past, particularly having regard to our style of play. Plus past form at test level definitely has to be a factor. Genia has proven a match winner on several occasions, and he has a bucket load of experience at that level. White has significantly less experience and is yet to really shine on the international stage.
When I take all of those things into account, I still come out with Genia slightly in front, but I'm continuing to watch both players over the next 3 months, and that could definitely change.
-- Also I'm warming to the idea of having Timani as our back-up 6 (behind fardy). I really like what he can bring to that position - size, strength, phyisicality, ballrunning and workrate.
I'm not sold on Higgers. I don't think he would look out of place in the squad, but I think Timani is a better option. Higgers' involvements have been really good this season; he plays with a lot of physicality and speed. But, he doesn't seem to have the workrate of Timani.
My backrows for the RWC if the squad was named tomorrow would be:-
6. Fardy, Timani
7. Pocock, Hooper
8. Palu, McCalman
-- Lock - I have to admit that I was horribly wrong in predicting that Horwill would be the 4th lock in the world cup squad a month ago. He's just not the champion he once was. I'd say Simo and Skelton are locks from my point of view and I believe they should be our starting 4 and 5. We always talk about having a well balanced pack. I don't believe you can get much better balance in the 2nd row than that pairing. As for the other 2, I'd go with Carter and either Coleman or Arnold (both of whom can play the enforcer type role). Carter hasn't been in great form, but i do think he doesn't get the praise he deserves in some games. He's got some test experience and has a great workrate.
--The White v Genia debate seems like a hot topic. White was woefully slow in his delivery on Friday. Really terrible. Genia was just ok i thought, but easily better than White.
I think generally the perceived form of the 9 and 10 of any team rests on how the team is performing. Generally the play-makers have things easier in a team that is performing well and it makes them look better. conversely playmakers in poorly performing teams are generally under pressure and are more likely to look ordinary. I'll temper that point by saying that there is obviously a "chicken or egg" situation, in that the cause of a poorly performing team is often contributed to the pivots, and vice versa.
I think overall White has looked better than Genia this season, no doubt. But he's playing in a team that is performing at a much higher standard. Genia on the other hand has worked hard (without being outstanding) in very hard circumstances. I don't think anyone would attribute the Reds performances down to Genia play; Genia appears to be doing his best behind a poorly performing pack, inside a make-shift 10.
The point I'm making is that saying "White is out performing Genia this season" and thus he should get the RW bench spot, is fraught with danger. Analyzing which player is better equipped for the bench spot is much more complex.
Genia looks to be in better form than he was last year. Hi running game appears to have returned and that is what has always made him such a solid test player in years past, particularly having regard to our style of play. Plus past form at test level definitely has to be a factor. Genia has proven a match winner on several occasions, and he has a bucket load of experience at that level. White has significantly less experience and is yet to really shine on the international stage.
When I take all of those things into account, I still come out with Genia slightly in front, but I'm continuing to watch both players over the next 3 months, and that could definitely change.
-- Also I'm warming to the idea of having Timani as our back-up 6 (behind fardy). I really like what he can bring to that position - size, strength, phyisicality, ballrunning and workrate.
I'm not sold on Higgers. I don't think he would look out of place in the squad, but I think Timani is a better option. Higgers' involvements have been really good this season; he plays with a lot of physicality and speed. But, he doesn't seem to have the workrate of Timani.
My backrows for the RWC if the squad was named tomorrow would be:-
6. Fardy, Timani
7. Pocock, Hooper
8. Palu, McCalman
-- Lock - I have to admit that I was horribly wrong in predicting that Horwill would be the 4th lock in the world cup squad a month ago. He's just not the champion he once was. I'd say Simo and Skelton are locks from my point of view and I believe they should be our starting 4 and 5. We always talk about having a well balanced pack. I don't believe you can get much better balance in the 2nd row than that pairing. As for the other 2, I'd go with Carter and either Coleman or Arnold (both of whom can play the enforcer type role). Carter hasn't been in great form, but i do think he doesn't get the praise he deserves in some games. He's got some test experience and has a great workrate.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
I can understand that but I would like to see them play some consistently good rugby, win or lose. What I saw this weekend had sapped my RWC confidence, what little there was after the EOYT.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Nah, putting aside his performance against the Blues and the Tahs, White has been excellent for the Brumbies and is certainly in much, much better form than Genia...........
Genia's service and poor kicking continues to let him down, but his sniping was pretty good against the Bulls last night..............
The biggest threat to White being Phipp's deputy is White himself.
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
Actually, until this last weekend, White has been the standout No 9 in the Aus conference. Nick Phipps is showing some signs of regaining his form from last year but Will is really hot and cold (mostly cold) despite the poor showings of the Reds. Maybe he is part of the cause? Nic White had a shocker against the Blues, but that was his one sub-par game this year.
I get that people don't like Nic, but that's by the way. If he continues to play better than Will (which he has all year long) he will be the backup No 9 for the tests.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
I have to confess that my heart sunk a bit after the performances of our teams this weekend. That's tempered by the knowledge that a good number of our best players aren't on the paddock at the moment and when they're back things will improve.
hammertimethere
Trevor Allan (34)
I accept your viewpoint but respectfully disagree.
"The standout No 9 so far" is a fairly long bow to draw. He's been good in patches, and poor in patches (he wasn't just shit vs blues, he was pretty average against the tahs and has had some poor moments in other games).
I'll be interested to see how he performs In a Brumbies team with significant injury challenges like Genia had at the Reds. If he stands up and really leads the team around in attack and shows composure then he'd probably be looking like the next best.
Happy to be proven wrong but as it stands, with no 9 really killing it, rather just all bringing there particular strengths and weaknesses I'd have Phipps and Genia as the options.
"The standout No 9 so far" is a fairly long bow to draw. He's been good in patches, and poor in patches (he wasn't just shit vs blues, he was pretty average against the tahs and has had some poor moments in other games).
I'll be interested to see how he performs In a Brumbies team with significant injury challenges like Genia had at the Reds. If he stands up and really leads the team around in attack and shows composure then he'd probably be looking like the next best.
Happy to be proven wrong but as it stands, with no 9 really killing it, rather just all bringing there particular strengths and weaknesses I'd have Phipps and Genia as the options.
KOB1987
Rod McCall (65)
Couldn't agree more..I was going to express a similar viewpoint. I would say that of the Aussie franchises, Stirzaker has been the best performing halfback so far this season. I'm not suggesting he should be the Wallabies #9, only that the incumbents need to lift their game. Phipps has to an extent the past few weeks and I think we learnt last year that White isn't a test player. Is a fantastic player at Super level on his day but that's where it ends for mine. Phipps & Genia.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
Bit Harsh on White. Didn't he only play like 2 Test matches?
Phipps starting a heap of tests and was very average for a couple of test seasons before he lifted his game last season.
I certainly would be starting with Phipps but I wouldn't ride off a player as fresh and young as Nic White.
KOB1987
Rod McCall (65)
I'm not writing him off, it's just my opinion and I'm more than happy to be wrong. The reality is they'll probably take all 3 to England.
BDA
Peter Johnson (47)
Yeh I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that White is "not a test player". He just hasn't really had a game at test level where he has been one of the better players on the field. Phipps and Genia have both had plenty.
I think the comparison to Phipps is a fair one. Everyone was calling blue murder a few years back when Deans kept including him on the bench. He's developed nicely since then.
I think the comparison to Phipps is a fair one. Everyone was calling blue murder a few years back when Deans kept including him on the bench. He's developed nicely since then.
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