Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[BDA]

plus i think we have to keep in mind that if you're playing a team with a strong rolling maul, chances are your maul defense will be more important than your ability to contest the line-out.

 

[cyclopath]

plus i think we have to keep in mind that if you're playing a team with a strong rolling maul, chances are your maul defense will be more important than your ability to contest the line-out.

There is no "if". We will need to be on top of this come RWC 2015, let alone before. Look at the games these days, rolling mauls are a dime a dozen. It is critical.

 

[BDA]

So when we talk about defensive line-out ability, surely Skelton is one of our best selections

 

[Sully]

His average ability at calling the lineout, doesn't compensate enough for his likely yellow card 8 mins into any game for a late speak tackle on the ref.

Fardy has been calling the Brumbies lineout this year and I think, before we lost a couple against the Blues, it was the best in the comp. I'd have him call them.

Fardy gives away a lot more penalties.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

There is no "if". We will need to be on top of this come RWC 2015, let alone before. Look at the games these days, rolling mauls are a dime a dozen. It is critical.

Dead right. All the NH teams and the Boks will come at us with a rolling maul. Our defence of that phase will be key. For that reason guys like Skelton will be handy. His maul defence is pretty fantastic.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Having a poor line-out wont, on its own, lose us the world cup. It could definitely be a contributing factor, but even if you only won 40% of your own line-out throws that doesn't mean you couldn't dominate in enough of the remaining facets of the game to win comfortably. Conversely shit work at the scrum or the breakdown can seal your fate.

Absolutely. A scrum leaking penalties is like a slow agonising death. Not being secure at the breakdown is arguably as bad and when we've lost to England it's usually been in those areas.

 

[Marcelo]

This is why I rate Carter, his impact with ball in hand is really the last thing that gets ticked off on a locks list.

He ticks all the other boxes, and very well. Skelton and Carter would make an excellent combination, and our maul defence would be awesome.

Carter was good against a poor French side (the last June international window) but facing top class teams he was dominated

 

[Brumby Runner]

Look at Skelton - last year he was a poor scrum technician, and was used very rarely in lineouts and had only his ball running and maul defence, yet was a key player for the Tahs.

Don't want to undervalue the running aspects of anyone's game, but I think Skelton on the EOYT is a prime example of why a lock needs to perform the core requirements of a lock's game before they should be used primarily for their running ability.

Whenever Skelton joined the game the scrum went to shambles, and that was the case no matter who was propping the scrum. IIRC after he came on a couple of penalty tries, or at least pushovers. resulted from our poor scrumming efforts.

This year of course he has been playing good football in all aspects of the lock's game, including the occasional lineout take where he actually jumps and wins the ball in the air. I am mpost impressed with how he has come on this year, and fully expect him to be one of the starting locks come test time.

 

[cyclopath]

Don't want to undervalue the running aspects of anyone's game, but I think Skelton on the EOYT is a prime example of why a lock needs to perform the core requirements of a lock's game before they should be used primarily for their running ability.

Whenever Skelton joined the game the scrum went to shambles, and that was the case no matter who was propping the scrum. IIRC after he came on a couple of penalty tries, or at least pushovers. resulted from our poor scrumming efforts.

This year of course he has been playing good football in all aspects of the lock's game, including the occasional lineout take where he actually jumps and wins the ball in the air. I am mpost impressed with how he has come on this year, and fully expect him to be one of the starting locks come test time.

Totally agree. Last year, he was a valued Super Rugby player with a fairly limited skillset. At Test level, deficiencies were exposed. That's improving. I still believe, as far as core values go, jumping in the lineout is not at the top of the list these days. It is still important, but as others have also said, we will lose because we have a shit scrum or poor breakdown / maul work before we will lose from a sub-par lineout. If we can have all of them at distinction level, great.
If Skelton (for example) can be a sometimes used option at lineout on attack, a pain at lineout defence / maul disruption, run it OK to well and scrum well, I will be happy. As I will be if other options can do that.
There will likely be good lineout technicians to balance that. Nothing will balance a weak scrummager, as we saw too often last year.

 

[Brumby Runner]

The other issue with having a particularly efficient lineout is that canny oppositions can and will keep the ball in play as much as they can control it.

Teams from NZ and SA (not from Australia unfortunately) seem to prefer to keep the ball in play when exiting their danger zones rather than kick for a small amount of territory gain and an almost certain turnover of possession to the opposition. A good, deep kick with a well organised chase will also turnover possession in most cases but in a much more favourable field position.

Edit, NH sides like Ireland are particularly deft at keeping the ball in play and away from our most dangerous runners as illustrated by the manner in which they beat the Wallabies on the eoyt.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The other issue with having a particularly efficient lineout is that canny oppositions can and will keep the ball in play as much as they can control it.

Teams from NZ and SA (not from Australia unfortunately) seem to prefer to keep the ball in play when exiting their danger zones rather than kick for a small amount of territory gain and an almost certain turnover of possession to the opposition. A good, deep kick with a well organised chase will also turnover possession in most cases but in a much more favourable field position.

That's the key right there. At times our kick chase has been woeful and we've been scored on (mostly by the All Blacks). If we're going deliberately not to find touch we'd better be red hot on the chase and harrassment at the breakdown or we'll get opened up.

 

[cyclopath]

The other issue with having a particularly efficient lineout is that canny oppositions can and will keep the ball in play as much as they can control it.

Teams from NZ and SA (not from Australia unfortunately) seem to prefer to keep the ball in play when exiting their danger zones rather than kick for a small amount of territory gain and an almost certain turnover of possession to the opposition. A good, deep kick with a well organised chase will also turnover possession in most cases but in a much more favourable field position.

Indeed. Kick-chase at Test level has been poor for the Wallabies for a few years. Well, kicking, by and large, and chasing have both been poor!

 

[Slim 293]

Fardy gives away a lot more penalties.

Really?

 

[Joe Blow]

I think as far as lock goes both Simmons and Skelton are on the plane if fit. Maybe Carter as well?
Horwill is looking very shaky but could get an invite because of his experience.
Then you have Coleman, Jones and Arnold all putting their hands up.
Are we taking 4 or 5? If Jones goes as a back up 6 then we have space for at least two more.
Coleman is raw but he is big and strong. Someone has stated already that Simmo and Carter didn't combine well in the second row and I absolutely agree with that. Pull Carter and throw Coleman in there?
Hopefully Coleman, Jones and Arnold all get a chance during the RC. Injury may help Cheika decide who gets on the plane as well.

 

[Tomikin]

Really?

This year his been good, but I can't argue that last year when he played the roll of the fetcher for the team he does give away penalties... Just not Dumb ones.. which is the world of difference. .

 

[hammertimethere]

Brumbieman, take off the glasses or get off the sauce.

We'd have to be nuts to discard Simmons for Carter at this stage. Simmons is
a) Calls the line out and actually pinches more than a few on their throw (best form of maul defence is to pinch it in the air, primary possession and all that. Furthermore, nothing I've seen makes me believe Carter is superior at maul D, they're both similarly good).
b) actually has been known to out in the odd shot in defence (ask TPN if you don't believe me). Highest % dominant tackles on EOYT 2013 AND 2014 IIRC.
c) attempts similar number of tackles and stats wise has been the Wobs most accurate defender (highest completion %)
d) better carrier of the seed, though that's not so key (he's probably "ok" with Carter being "ordinary")

 

[hammertimethere]

Furthermore, this whole "Simmons will give away a penalty rah rah rah. . . He's a bone-headed player. . . No discipline" thing is a myth that has persisted long beyond it's period of validity, similar to "Quade can't tackle", "AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can't pass" etc.

I'd like to see Simmons and Skelton start the year as top locks, with Carter fighting for a start off the bench, Horwill and Coleman in the wider squad scrapping for the last ticket to England.

 

[Sully]

Really?

Yup.

 

[Sully]

This year his been good, but I can't argue that last year when he played the roll of the fetcher for the team he does give away penalties. Just not Dumb ones.. which is the world of difference. .

Are they worth less points?

 

[Pedrolicus]

Are they worth less points?

Depending on where they are on the field, yes.