Wallaby Backrow - The Way Forward?

[Braveheart81]

Dave Dennis has just played his sixth test, three of which have been off the bench.

I don't think we can write him off yet as not taking pride in the jersey. He needs to lift for sure, but given how well he has played all season and the rate at which he has improved, I wouldn't be ditching him just yet for someone else who is just as likely to have little impact against the ABs.

If the Wallabies are going to progress as a team in the Rugby Championship it needs to be in the development of players that can continue to improve and harden for test rugby so we can challenge the All Blacks.

Our backrow on Saturday night had started 11 test matches I believe. We're never going to challenge the All Blacks backrow with a group that inexperienced. We have to continue to develop combinations rather than going back to the drawing board every time they can't outplay McCaw and Read.

 

[Paradox]

Surprised (and concerned) Dennis is nearly 27.

 

[AlexH]

Auelua has been mentioned in a couple of posts so I think I should draw attention to the fact that he will be turning twenty-nine next January. He is a fair way away from being an international eight and by the time he get himself to that level he will have a relatively short shelf-life. Five years earlier and he would have been perfect. Its a shame because he is my favourite eight in Australia right now.

 

[Richo]

Surprised (and concerned) Dennis is nearly 27.

So is Ben Mowen. Higgers is 25.

 

[wikman]

Going forward into the next world cup does anyone have a problem with possibly moving Pocock to 6, Gill coming in at 7, Higgers retaining the number 8 starting position with Hooper coming off the bench in the last 20-15 minutes as an impact player?

 

[ACT Crusader]

It's interesting that over the Deans years he has used a plethora of back rowers vs the ABs (17 tests)

Palu
Smith
Elsom
Waugh
McMenimen
Brown
Pocock
Mumm
Hodgson
Higginbotham
Samo
Dennis
Hooper
Gill

I can't help but think that Deans wouldve hoped for Palu being more healthy as he could've been the mainstay in this team over the past 5 years and we probably would've have been making T. Kefu like comparisons. Elsom going off the boil hasn't helped because I thought the Elsom, Palu and G. Smith trio had good balance, but Elsom and Palu were still finding their feet and timing is sometimes everything in team sports.

All the rest of these guys seems to be stop gaps or "hope and see's".

I'm sure there are others who have been tried along the way, but one thing is for sure it's been a veritable revolving door IMO and it looks set to continue due to a combination of injuries and players seeming to be not up to it.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Going forward into the next world cup does anyone have a problem with possibly moving Pocock to 6, Gill coming in at 7, Higgers retaining the number 8 starting position with Hooper coming off the bench in the last 20-15 minutes as an impact player?

Yes. Higgers is a good S15 player who struggles to make the transition to the international level.

 

[Joe Blow]

What is Palu's status. Is he out for the year or expected back in the next few weeks?

 

[wikman]

Yes. Higgers is a good S15 player who struggles to make the transition to the international level.

Or even mowen based on his performance this year.

 

[vidiot]

Yes. Higgers is a good S15 player who struggles to make the transition to the international level.

Not every player is an instant success. When he started S15 it wasn't clear he was a good S15 player. He was large and fast and eye catching, good for one dramatic moment a game.

He's starting tests now and the last fortnight has been been a big learning curve. We can only aspire for him to reach the level of say a Pierre Spies. Unless someone else is knocking on the door with similar or better performances, then Deans might as well keep 'polishing' Higgers.

Did he go off because he was injured?

 

[Richo]

I don't think Higgers is an 8 at test level, either. If and when Palu comes back, I think we might see some improvement with him at 6.

 

[Joe Blow]

Higgers is very effective in the lineout and has a good turn of pace. He just needs to keep tightening up his game and he will come good.
I cannot think of anyone in Australian Super rugby who is putting up their hand to be chosen at 6 ahead of him right now. That might change next year.

 

[Linebacker_41]

For me we need to cover skill sets and get the balance right. The balance in the ABs backrow is the real backbone of their team.

For me you need a fetcher at #7.

#6 and #8 are somewhat interchangeable in their skill sets however I prefer a #6 who is a defensive wall, an imposing figure that says to who says to his opposition with a huge grin on his face "Run down my side, please". In my ultimate team the #6 doesnt even want to get the ball he is just happy tackling anything that moves in front of him with a different coloured jersey to his (even the ref is not safe from this guy).

#8 is a highly skilled position can run with the ball, pass of both hands and most importantly loves to run hard at his opposite #6.

So with this in mind:
#7 Gill - Yes Hooper was outstanding but your #7 needs to get the turnovers
#6 Massive hole - I can't see anyone that fits this job description for me. We need an enforcer. Higgers shows that he is good at seagulling, but is not effective either in defense or attack as he moves closer to the breakdown. Dennis does not have the athleticism to be the defensive rock of the team.
#8 Schatz/Mowen have the skill set but lack the destructive ball running capability. I havent seen much of him but Auelua has most but not all of the skill set needed and can run hard but like other posters may be past his time. I still rate Palu but for me he just hasn't been fit and is a liability in that he wont finish the game.


I now read my own post and sit here thinking that with the cattle we have that we are f'ed. No wonder Robbie looks so pale these days.

 

[Braveheart81]

We are just completely short of options at Number 8.

Higginbotham and Dennis are both fine at number 8 in Super Rugby but struggle to bring the physicality required in test rugby. Schatz and Mowen could be in the same boat. All these guys are really just options for Number 6 at this point.

Number 8 we have Palu and then there is daylight second. Samo has shown he is an option for a short stint. Once Palu is fit perhaps we have to have Palu and Samo as number 8 and restrict Higgers and Dennis to number 6.

Hopefully 2013 will be a big year for Ita Vaea. We really need him to become an option for the Wallabies in the not so distant future.

 

[cyclopath]

Higgers is very effective in the lineout and has a good turn of pace. He just needs to keep tightening up his game and he will come good.
I cannot think of anyone in Australian Super rugby who is putting up their hand to be chosen at 6 ahead of him right now. That might change next year.

This has been said for quite a while now by quite a few. I want to be a believer in Higginbotham, but the longer he goes confirming his loose, seagulling ability and basically never showing the hard, tough, close quarters mongrel, I am starting to doubt. If we've seen nothing else of late, the luxury of having one of our bigger and supposedly stronger and athletic players loitering wide is something I don't think we can afford. There seems to be no reason he cannot adopt a more Read-like style of play. He has the skills and size.

 

[tigerland12]

#6 and #8 are somewhat interchangeable in their skill sets however I prefer a #6 who is a defensive wall, an imposing figure that says to who says to his opposition with a huge grin on his face "Run down my side, please". In my ultimate team the #6 doesnt even want to get the ball he is just happy tackling anything that moves in front of him with a different coloured jersey to his (even the ref is not safe from this guy).

After the way he finished the Super Rugby season, I think Jake Shatz is one who can fit this bill in a year or so.

 

[Scotty]

For me we need to cover skill sets and get the balance right. The balance in the ABs backrow is the real backbone of their team.

For me you need a fetcher at #7.

#6 and #8 are somewhat interchangeable in their skill sets however I prefer a #6 who is a defensive wall, an imposing figure that says to who says to his opposition with a huge grin on his face "Run down my side, please". In my ultimate team the #6 doesnt even want to get the ball he is just happy tackling anything that moves in front of him with a different coloured jersey to his (even the ref is not safe from this guy).

#8 is a highly skilled position can run with the ball, pass of both hands and most importantly loves to run hard at his opposite #6.

I agree, think Cockbain, Wilson, Kefu.

However the ABs have their 6 and 8 around the other way more recently.

 

[Scotty]

This has been said for quite a while now by quite a few. I want to be a believer in Higginbotham, but the longer he goes confirming his loose, seagulling ability and basically never showing the hard, tough, close quarters mongrel, I am starting to doubt. If we've seen nothing else of late, the luxury of having one of our bigger and supposedly stronger and athletic players loitering wide is something I don't think we can afford. There seems to be no reason he cannot adopt a more Read-like style of play. He has the skills and size.

Like Braveheart's post above I see Higgers and Dennis as 6 and Palu and Samo as 8.

Higgers could play a similar role to Messam. Run a bit wider and use his pace, but tackle everything possible in defense. He actually hit almost every second ruck in the first 20 on saturday - just never really got the ball in his hands.

Of anything he needs to improve his defense. Hit lower and harder.

 

[Linebacker_41]

I agree, think Cockbain, Wilson, Kefu.

However the ABs have their 6 and 8 more recently.

Perfect balance in that former wallaby combination Scotty, no wonder they were champions.

 

[fatprop]

Higgers should be just watching Read's highlight real and trying to emulate the guy. (More line running, defensive efforts and technique at the breakdown and less chip kick practice)

Both have great natural skills, but Read puts them to far better use.