Waratahs 2013

[jay-c]

and another thing> anyone else think tpns loss of dynamism the last year or two seems to coincide with an increase in weight (muscle)? hes better in the scrums now for sure but impact round the park i think has dropped off> i feel his impacts (while still great) are fewer and further between>
players are naturally gunna put on weight over their career> can anyone point out a player who has lost weight in their final years to regain impact?
i always thought tuquri was carrying too much muscle in his final years
this is 2009 and 2012>

 

[qwerty51]

Turner pretty much confirmed his spot as the 3rd best winger in the Wallabies at the end of 2011.

 

[wamberal]

can someone who believes turner deserves a starting spot over kingston please give me a few reasons why? im left bewildered when i keep seeing people select him in their teams for this season when i personally believe kingston showed more last season then turner has since his debut season (and of course that great test v the blacks) seriously> turner has been one of the biggest culprits of unnecessary (some might say cowardly) kicking the ball away for years now> i havnt seen his pace for so long its a myth as far as im concerned

Are you seriously accusing Turner of being a coward? If you are, I don't think there is much point trying to have a rational discussion with you.

 

[It is what it is]

Turner pretty much confirmed his spot as the 3rd best winger in the Wallabies at the end of 2011.

It's going to be tough enough for him at the Tahs, let alone in Wallaby circles.
It wasn't his fault he was injured but in his absence many other outside backs emerged and took their chances.
No one should ever question his courage though.

 

[jay-c]

theres not much point in trying to have a rational discussion with someone who attempts to change the meaning of my post

 

[Lee Grant]

It's going to be tough enough for him at the Tahs, let alone in Wallaby circles.
It wasn't his fault he was injured but in his absence many other outside backs emerged and took their chances.
No one should ever question his courage though.

Turner is not training currently and hasn't been for a while; so the question of whether or not he will have precedence over Kingston at the beginning of the season may be moot. Folks should not forget Pete Betham either.

Folau could also get a gig down the track. We will have no clue as to how he will cope in he union code until we see how he operates in the ying and yang of the back 3 unit.

Playing on the wing will let him use the touchline on defence but I hope that he is not scared of it on attack as Tahu and Sailor were.

I have seen him in 5 training sessions since he arrived but it's hard to judge him as he is always parked out on the right wing. He does well enough in the drills and his deception skills are superb. What surprised me was his top-notch ball work.

However those things won't mean beans until he actually plays in a game.

But I digress.

PS - Rob Horne was absent last week at the training sessions but everybody plays with a straight bat when one asks about injuries.

PPS - More on Chapman here:

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/mitchell-chapman-signs-with-waratahs/
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[Inside Shoulder]

What's turners issue? The same hammy injury?
He's a bloke who always gives his all and to describe his kicking as cowardly is ridiculous.


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[Brumby Runner]

Meh. The Tahs can only hold onto 30 players at any one time, of course blokes are going to go to other franchises/overseas.

True, all Aust franchises are limited in the number of players they can sign. The Brumbies have let some players go who later proved their worth elsewhere, eg, Pyle to the Rebels, Faingaas to the Reds, Charles to the Force etc. It is my impression that the Tahs seem to be less inclined than other provinces to recruit the obvious up and comers who stand out in the Shute Shield year after year. In the past couple of years we've seen Neville go to Melbourne when imo he is a better lock than any in the Tahs roster, McCaffery to the Force when he would be a good backup to Palu, (and what of AJ Gilbert? Probably the best No 8 in the SS last year - will he be signed?), CTM to the Force while they kept Carter, Palmer to the Brumbies when he was always recognised as a top scrummager, John Grant to the mungos. There would be others, no doubt.

I am pleased that these and others are available to the other teams, but if I was a Tahs supporter, I would be totally frustrated that so much talent has gone elsewhere while my team which finished 11th last year is still essentially the same.

 

[wamberal]

theres not much point in trying to have a rational discussion with someone who attempts to change the meaning of my post

You accused Turner of behaving like a coward. If that is not what you meant, why did you say it?


What did you mean to say?

 

[barbarian]

In the past couple of years we've seen Neville go to Melbourne when imo he is a better lock than any in the Tahs roster, McCaffery to the Force when he would be a good backup to Palu, (and what of AJ Gilbert? Probably the best No 8 in the SS last year - will he be signed?), CTM to the Force while they kept Carter, Palmer to the Brumbies when he was always recognised as a top scrummager, John Grant to the mungos. There would be others, no doubt.

But I could make a case for passing on all of those guys, with the exception of Palmer who I agree we shouldn't have let go (but I doubt we didn't put an offer on the table for him).

Neville was a very rough diamond when signed, not even close to the finished product he is now and only had one season of rugby under his belt. Hindsight is a marvellous thing, but you can only have so many locks and at the time he was signed he wouldn't have made the cut behind Vickerman, Mumm, Douglas and Timani.

McCaffery, Grant and Gilbert are handy SS players but there is little evidence so far that they can cut it at Super level. They would be handy squad players, but I hardly think they are glaring errors in recruitment.

And how can you say CTM is better than Carter? Yes CTM had a decent enough SS, but Carter has been the rock of the Tahs in the past three seasons, consistently leading the competition defensive figures. You may not like him as a bloke but he is still head and shoulders above an unproven Kiwi from Norths.
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[I like to watch]

Carter was not the rock of the Tahs last year, he could not make the match day squad for a chunk of the season.
He was originally told there would be no contract for him this year.
CTM is unknown at this level, but has more upside than Carter.
But Carter's stats do demonstrate he is reliable.
I see Carter's signing as a indicator that the Tahs are going to be more grinders than entertainers this year.

 

[barbarian]

Carter was not the rock of the Tahs last year, he could not make the match day squad for a chunk of the season.
He was originally told there would be no contract for him this year.
CTM is unknown at this level, but has more upside than Carter.
But Carter's stats do demonstrate he is reliable.
I see Carter's signing as a indicator that the Tahs are going to be more grinders than entertainers this year.

Yeah true about 2012.

CTM is a good prospect, no doubt, but given the choice at the moment I would take Carter over CTM any day. Partly because of what he offers- a reliable crashballing presence in midfield, which we don't really have on our squad at the moment.
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[I like to watch]

We can agree to disagree on the 12.It's a thankless job recruiting.As you highlighted in an earlier post,for every signing, there are at least one or two options you have to pass on.Inevitably some of those that you have passed on will bloom.
Neville being a good example.Everyone knew he was going to be good,but only Melbourne could make room for him at the time.

 

[It is what it is]

Carter was not the rock of the Tahs last year, he could not make the match day squad for a chunk of the season.
He was originally told there would be no contract for him this year.
CTM is unknown at this level, but has more upside than Carter.
But Carter's stats do demonstrate he is reliable.
I see Carter's signing as a indicator that the Tahs are going to be more grinders than entertainers this year.

Didn't the Waratahs re-sign Carter well before Cheika signing on as coach?
If that was the case then Carter's signing will have no bearing on how Cheika's team plays.

 

[Slim 293]

So when is Fitzpatrick being unveiled as the 2013 captain?

 

[Slim 293]

Seriously though, Chapman is a good signing.

Along with Mowen, one of the best players not to be capped in recent years.........

 

[I like to watch]

Didn't the Waratahs re-sign Carter well before Cheika signing on as coach?
If that was the case then Carter's signing will have no bearing on how Cheika's team plays.

yep your right.
I looked it up, Carter re signs 27/7 Foley resigns 2 or 3 days later.
He knows he is leaving, why would he then fill up the roster with guys he did not want to use all year,so the new guy cannot recruit the guys that he wants.......

 

[Inside Shoulder]

McCaffery, Grant and Gilbert are handy SS players but there is little evidence so far that they can cut it at Super level. They would be handy squad players, but I hardly think they are glaring errors in recruitment.
.

@1.82m & 100kg is Gilbert big enough to be a regular s15 no 8 (or 6 for that matter)? To my observations of him in SS he isn't an openside.

 

[Lee Grant]

Gilbert is not recruited - he is just attending Tahs training as an unpaid invited player.

But if Hooper is injured and McCutcheon is still not ready (he started light running last Monday) they could drag him in to play on the openside because there is no other 7 in the main squad or EPS.

We Aussies are accustomed to our 7s being fetchers but we and the Kiwis are exceptions.

The England national team hasn't had a regular genuine opensider since Lipman and currently use notters - and it's the same in a majority of their pro clubs.

Brussouw was the only regular opensider since Krige for the Boks and their Super teams often play bruisers on the open side flank.

The French play left and right flanker in test matches; so half the time they are 6s and half the time 7s - call them 6.5s. There are aren't a lot of specialist opensiders in the Top14, come to think of it.

My point is that we shouldn't get our knickers in a knot that AJ is not a specialist opensider if he has to play in the position for the Tahs, when a majority of world professional rugby run-on teams do well enough without them.
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[Brumby Runner]

Jake White's only error last year, imo, was to try to fit Ita Vaea at 7 in the early games, following the SA model. The Reds played two fetchers against the Brumbies and won easily largely through glut of possession. Hooper then started, and we know what his impact was for the rest of the season. I think a fetching 7 is still the best way to go.