Waratahs 2020

[RugbyReg]

I think he is. He looks like he is definitely up to this level and his improvement from when he first appeared in the NRC is staggering.

In my opinion he's one of the few bright spots on what was a terrible season so far.

There's something about Harrison that is very special.

He was criticized in a lot of the traditional circles because he didn't play schoolboy rugby but made the Australian schoolboys (maybe captain?). The school didn't actually play rugby so he made his way playing colts at Randwick. He proved himself then.

Then he had an absolute shocker for the Rays on NRC debut and was, again, roundly criticized by fans as being not up to it. But he stuck at it and, I thought, was one of the Rays' best that season.

Similarly, he was a little off in his early games for the Tahs, but again showed he could match it with great composure this season.

I think he is an exceptional talent. A perfect foil for some of the individual stars we have coming through the system.

I maintain his game in the wet on the GC for the Jnr Wallabies v the Small Blacks last year was one of the finest wet weather games by an Aussie 10 for decades.

 

[dru]

One thing people keep overlooking is that being the best player in your position at under 20s level doesn't go close to meaning you have a strong professional career ahead of you.

Super Rugby has always been a very strong competition. If the average Super Rugby career of a solid player is 8-10 years and we have four teams then a pretty small fraction of under 20s players are going to end up having that sort of career.

Out of each under 20s squad maybe half will get a full Super Rugby contract at any point and 7 or 8 would be regular Super Rugby matchday players.

Thinking through those numbers the importance of academy pathway seems a major issue. From the outside those pathways seemed less effective for Mason than they have been more recently.

 

[eastman]

I struggle with the idea of blaming coaches when a player like Mason fails to fire.

There's an implication that anyone could become a Wallaby star with the right support, and the impetus is on coaches to extract the ability out of the player.

I don't think that is the case. Mason failed to fire for a number of reasons, a central one being I'm not sure he's quite good enough for Super Rugby. Give him all the minutes you want and I don't think that changes.

Another point to consider is that coaches tend to persist (or give more leeway) with underperforming players if they have obvious potential and talent, as demonstrated on the training paddock and/or lower levels of rugby. Anyone who has played/ followed rugby to any significant level, will always be able to point out examples of players who performed poorly during the early stages of their career, but were always 'good' players and destined to succeed eventually.​

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Two glaring (and probably extreme) examples would be Damien Mackenzie or Quade Cooper who both looked below average in their initial performances in super rugby but obviously had enough talent that they were always going to be successful and worth persevering with.​

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Basically what I'm saying (and the coaches at the Waratahs would seemingly agree) is that Mason probably didn't have enough upside or potential to justify the continued investment and persistence.​

 

[Braveheart81]

Thinking through those numbers the importance of academy pathway seems a major issue. From the outside those pathways seemed less effective for Mason than they have been more recently.

It's mostly just a numbers game. There just aren't enough professional positions in the game in Australia for everyone coming out of the under 20s even if they were stars in that age group.

The health of our overall rugby pathways will be shown by how many of those players in total can forge a long professional career either here or overseas but the number of jobs here will always be limited.

The reality though is that a lot of them will never really go on to much more, particularly when we're not performing that well (i.e. prior to our 2nd place finish last year we were finishing 5th - 8th over the 7 years before that). It's hard to picture there being good professional rugby careers for all the players coming out of a team that was fairly average in that age group.

 

[dru]

^^I see I have drifted the topic off thread, which is a pity as it is interesting.

To get back on task, I’m quite excited to see Harrison develop. Has everything in front of him.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

I struggle with the idea of blaming coaches when a player like Mason fails to fire.

There's an implication that anyone could become a Wallaby star with the right support, and the impetus is on coaches to extract the ability out of the player.

I don't think that is the case. Mason failed to fire for a number of reasons, a central one being I'm not sure he's quite good enough for Super Rugby. Give him all the minutes you want and I don't think that changes.

Harrison has come in and looked far better than Mason ever did. He's only played a handful of games behind a struggling pack and he is already making clear steps forward. The last game he played against the Brumbies (a distant memory), he was outstanding.

Mason is still young and I hope he finds an opportunity somewhere else. But I don't think it made much sense for the Tahs to keep him.

I'm not saying he would've been a superstar but how the hell would we know? You cannot call riding the pine for 2 years 'development' can you. Running around Coogee Oval on a Sat arvo is not exactly running out at Rugby Park.

Harrison looks to be by far a better player so not really apples to apples.

I've done this to death. Moving on.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm not saying he would've been a superstar but how the hell would we know? You cannot call riding the pine for 2 years 'development' can you. Running around Coogee Oval on a Sat arvo is not exactly running out at Rugby Park.

He would have looked a whole lot better in club rugby and NRC if he was going to succeed at Super Rugby level.

Harrison looks to be by far a better player so not really apples to apples.

This is why Mason didn't get more opportunities and ultimately when the job became available, he didn't get it.

 

[molman]

It's mostly just a numbers game. There just aren't enough professional positions in the game in Australia for everyone coming out of the under 20s even if they were stars in that age group.

You've got players like Andrew Deegan who are examples of having to take less direct paths in improving their craft. He's a better player than he was when the Tah's released him. Mason might still grow. Like I said in an earlier post, sometimes a change isn't a bad thing. A number of Aussie players have been better for having a go in another comp like the ITM/Mitre10 cup or Pro14/Top14 etc. So all the best to him if he's keen on this path and profession.. and don't forget that he's still contracted till end of November (unless I missed an official release?) so there is always a chance we might see him again if needed.

 

[The Honey Badger]

I see your point about game time, but that can only happen if you have a substantial lead or if the team is out of finals contention and youre looking at next season.The Tahs rarely had the luxury of either scenario, so they had to keep their best 15 on the field. I feel for him and he is a nice bloke, but he's now been overtaken by others when he finally got out from behind Foley. That's sport

I dont think Tahs have any real depth at 10. Harrison, Donaldson & Hunt. Possibly playing 10,15 &12 in a starting 15. Maddocks might be a 15 but can he play 10? One and a bit injuries might see Mason back in the mix.

I am hoping he gets a chance. When hes good is is special, and I just cant see him being as bad as he was vs SW ever again. New coach should be able to get that demon out of his head. (I blame Daryl)

 

[wamberal]

I dont think Tahs have any real depth at 10.

Tayler Adams was a loss. Played for the wrong club.

 

[fatprop]

Mason hasn't taken his chances, as limited as they have been and others have shown more

I hope he finds somewhere and shines

(that way the tahs development structure can be blamed as usual)

 

[KiwiM]

Tayler Adams was a loss. Played for the wrong club.

Tayler Adams played Mitre 10 Cup and didn't look anywhere near Super Rugby level.

 

[fatprop]

I dont think Tahs have any real depth at 10.

I think it is the least of our problems, if Harrison was behind the pony's pigs there would be fewer concerns

The side is in a state of flux, we will be lucky to win a game, we will have to go through the pain while they get their shit together

 

[Up and under]

I dont think Tahs have any real depth at 10. Harrison, Donaldson & Hunt. Possibly playing 10,15 &12 in a starting 15. Maddocks might be a 15 but can he play 10? One and a bit injuries might see Mason back in the mix.

I am hoping he gets a chance. When hes good is is special, and I just cant see him being as bad as he was vs SW ever again. New coach should be able to get that demon out of his head. (I blame Daryl)

No depth at 10?? Harrison and Donaldson are the two Australian U20's 10's from last year. Yes they are inexperienced, but they are two of the most talented fly-halves in the country. Throw in young Tane Edmed, and I'd say that the Waratahs are well positioned for fly-halves moving forward.

They have all proved through their junior, schoolboy and rep rugby careers that they are the real deal. Let's not forget that they are only 20/21 years old. They just need to be surrounded by experienced teammates who can guide them forward.

 

[The Honey Badger]

No depth at 10?? Harrison and Donaldson are the two Australian U20's 10's from last year. Yes they are inexperienced, but they are two of the most talented fly-halves in the country. Throw in young Tane Edmed, and I'd say that the Waratahs are well positioned for fly-halves moving forward.

They have all proved through their junior, schoolboy and rep rugby careers that they are the real deal. Let's not forget that they are only 20/21 years old. They just need to be surrounded by experienced teammates who can guide them forward.

I rate Harrison big time. I am certain he will end up a wob. He actually played U20 for 2 years but didn't get too much game time in 2018 because Stewart was drafted in.

I havent seen Donaldson play much, clearly got some raps on him.

Tell me about Tane

 

[Braveheart81]

Tell me about Tane

He went to Trinity Grammar and played Australian Schoolboys etc. He would have been a good chance at being our under 20s 10 this year if it had been played.

More importantly, he is the son of Balmain Tigers legend Steve Edmed.

 

[The Honey Badger]

He went to Trinity Grammar and played Australian Schoolboys etc. He would have been a good chance at being our under 20s 10 this year if it had been played.

More importantly, he is the son of Balmain Tigers legend Steve Edmed.

Impressive highlights, does lots of stepping and running. I assume he has a kicking game as well. Saw 1 chip and regather looked good.

 

[KOB1987]

First home game is v the Force at SCG on 11th July, and then the Brumbies at ANZ on the 18th. Not ideal if you’re attending but using the bigger stadiums makes sense for these earlier games, and as I said earlier I’d happily watch from a paddock in Wilcannia. Hopefully the later 2 home games can be at more intimate venues, BankWest and possibly Newcastle.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ has there been or is there likely to be any movement on how many fans will be allowed at games?

 

[KOB1987]

The issue with the bigger stadiums was more about crowd control, and the use of public transport etc. I haven’t seen anything official re those stadiums but NSW today halved the 4 square metre rule to 2 square metres. Logically this will mean the smaller stadiums will go from 25% to 50%. They aren’t going to be expecting 40,000 to turn up to the SCG so my guess is they will just open a few stands, say the side on lower levels, and similar for ANZ.