Waratahs v Crusaders, round 15, Saturday 23 May @ Homebush

[Braveheart81]

I'm still confused about how Skelton running into McCaw was a cheap shot.

If you put yourself between the opposition and your kicker that you're trying to protect, someone should run into you.

 

[barbarian]

A lot of these guys play on the edge, though, and occasionally overstep.

I remember Tony Woodcock getting binned in a Bledisloe for a diving shoulder-charge to a prone Saia Fainga'a. That was dirty play, but I don't consider Woodcock to be a dirty player, he just crossed the line between hard play and dirty play. Skelton flirts with that line, too, but so do 90% of forwards in world rugby.
.

 

[I like to watch]

In a 15yr career you can find 2 things - Skelton is already over-taken him with 2 cheap shots in 1 game.

You know nothing about rugby if you seriously think Mealamu is a dirty player or is known for cheap shots or his niggle.

Nah,running into Richie was neither a hard man act nor a cheap shot.
Let's not reinvent history,Richie was not just standing around minding his business.He deliberately positioned himself so that he would hinder the defence.
When you do that,you should expect to get run over once in a while.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I've got zero issue with Skelton running into McCaw. As others have said, if you're standing between a guy and a legitimate opportunity to tackle someone you should expect to get flattened once in a while. Even the shoulder in that tackle later on was maybe borderline, but most of the time isn't penalised. The lifting on the hand hand he was lucky to get away with.

 

[qwerty51]

Skelton didn't really do anything wrong in the lifting tackle. It's all Latu.

 

[Gnostic]

Skelton didn't really do anything wrong in the lifting tackle. It's all Latu.

I though the Skelton part was identical to the Kepu throw on Richard Hibbard in the Australia V Wales test match a couple of years ago. Hibbard landed on his back should Kepu have been binned/red carded. Only difference is Latu wasn't lifting the legs.

 

[da_grubster]

This is so far off the mark. Yes it was a dangerous tackle and Latu deserved a yellow card. He lifted Whitelock and that put him in a dangerous position.

It was so far short of the tackle on BOD though. Whitelock didn't land on his shoulders or neck so there was never that level of danger and also the reason there wasn't a red card handed out.

Now I do think that Latu particularly could get suspended for a couple of weeks, particularly if he does contest the charge. It was certainly at the lower end as far as lifting tackles go though.

This tackle does highlight where the greater danger in lifting tackles lies which is having two players involved in the tackle. The lift alone wasn't overly dangerous but when you have another tackle trying to get the ball carrier to ground, the level of danger rises immensely. If Latu had inverted Whitelock more, you could have easily seen Skelton driving Whitelock's shoulders/head towards the ground in a very dangerous manner.

It is the closest as it is two people performing a speak tackle on a player and this was after the whistle. It is a vet rate occurrence.

I believe Whitlock put his arm down to protect himself which was the only reason he didn't land on his shoulder. Personally, they were both complicit in upending him both should have gone
I also question the strength of the Aussie forwards if 2 of them can't lift the lightest all black lock properly!

 

[Bullrush]

I'm still confused about how Skelton running into McCaw was a cheap shot.

If you put yourself between the opposition and your kicker that you're trying to protect, someone should run into you.

To be honest, I probably wouldn't have said anything but the rubbish being thrown around like this is a mark of what makes a hard player, that this is how you bully players, is rubbish. A shoulder charge in the back is not the mark of hard play.

That tackle on Whitlock was as cheap as it gets. Well after the whistle and well after the ball was gone - again, faux toughness like that will get found out pretty quick if he tries it at Test level.

 

[fatprop]

Not bothered about clattering a blocker out of the way

The tackle was reckless and as I have said before, made worse by Whitelock being unbalance by the leg lift, he does those "slams" every game without issue

My only concern actually was a shoulder used in a cleanout which wasn't great and I wouldn't like to see him made a conscious, regular part of his game.

 

[Brumby Runner]

There has been comments made that because the whistle had blown, the incident is worse.

I don't agree with that. We actually see a lot of lifting tackles happening after the whistle has gone which in my view is primarily due to the ball carrier stopping. Whereas they'd ordinarily be fighting against being tackled, they go limp which results in them being far more likely to be picked up and flipped.

Clearly the tacklers are still entirely at fault but I think the whistle having being blown makes it more likely that a lifting tackle might occur rather than making the lifting tackle a more heinous incident.

That might be so, but that just makes the decision to continue with a tackle after the whistle so much less defensible.

 

[ChargerWA]

This threads starting to get a bit "special".

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Latu 4 weeks, Skelton 2:

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/news/silatolu-latu-suspended-for-four-weeks/

http://www.sanzarrugby.com/superrugby/news/will-skelton-suspended-for-two-weeks/

 

[Gnostic]

Latu 4 weeks
Skelton 2 weeks
Jamie Pandram on Twitter (thanks RedsHappy)

The Judicial Lottery rolls on. Justice should be predictable and even handed. How does this equate with the penalties handed out and not handed out this year already. IMO do away with the judiciary altogther and instigate a points system and specified fixed penalties. No more of this ambiguous rubbish, it just brings the whole process into disrepute.

 

[cyclopath]

Latu 4 weeks
Skelton 2 weeks
Jamie Pandram on Twitter (thanks RedsHappy)

The Judicial Lottery rolls on. Justice should be predictable and even handed. How does this equate with the penalties handed out and not handed out this year already. IMO do away with the judiciary altogther and instigate a points system and specified fixed penalties. No more of this ambiguous rubbish, it just brings the whole process into disrepute.

Does anyone have a list of similar offences / penalties? I wouldn't have a clue, to be honest. Are these greatly different?
I agree the judicial process in SANZAR has long been a somewhat farcical lottery, but some data would be useful.
Many have called for some kind of fixed table of offences / penalties, but I cannot see SANZAR changing in a hurry.

 

[Oldschool]

The Waratahs should cop it on the chin and move on. The thought of appealing shows the lack of depth to cover the positions.
Skelton and Latu pushed the envelope and have been nailed for it.

 

[cyclopath]

The Waratahs should cop it on the chin and move on. The thought of appealing shows the lack of depth to cover the positions.
Skelton and Latu pushed the envelope and have been nailed for it.

Shh, otherwise it would have been a secret.

 

[Slim 293]

Interesting part in bold..........

In his finding, Stelzner ruled the following:

"As the Judicial Officer, I considered all the evidence before me including the video footage, additional video provided by the Waratahs, Citing Commissioner's report, medical information for the Crusaders' player, Sam Whitelock, who was involved in the incident and the submissions made for the player by his legal representatives, Anthony Black SC and Bruce Hodgkinson.

"After taking all relevant facts into consideration, I found the incident to have a lower end entry point for breaching of 10.4 (j) Lifting Tackle which stipulates a four-week suspension.

"Mitigating factors included the fact that the player admitted his contravention of the law, his youthfulness and clean disciplinary record and the character references supplied on his behalf.

“This resulted in the aforesaid period of four weeks being reduced by two weeks. A deterrent of two weeks was however added for this type of offending as it is an action that has sought to be eliminated from the game.

“Latu played a more dominant role in the tackle when compared to the actions of his teammate, Will Skelton, who received a suspension of two weeks.

"The player’s playing schedule is such that there is a significant chance of the Waratahs being involved in the Super Rugby Qualifier and/or Semi-Finals. A four-week suspension will in all probability result in his missing the next four matches of the competition. This is a meaningful sanction.
"The player is accordingly found to have contravened Law 10.4 (j) and is suspended up to and including Saturday 20 June 2015."

 

[Slim 293]

The reason why Skelton didn't receive 4 weeks:

"Given the lesser extent of his involvement however, the sanction in the case of Skelton did not in my view warrant an increase from the entry level sanction to serve as a deterrent. He was unaware of the actions of his fellow player, Silatolu Latu, and although he dropped his opponent after he had lifted and turned him, it appeared that Latu was the player who had continued with the tip tackle causing their opponent to land in the manner in which he ultimately did."

 

[Gnostic]

Does anyone have a list of similar offences / penalties? I wouldn't have a clue, to be honest. Are these greatly different?
I agree the judicial process in SANZAR has long been a somewhat farcical lottery, but some data would be useful.
Many have called for some kind of fixed table of offences / penalties, but I cannot see SANZAR changing in a hurry.

Without going through all the incidents

Du Plesis - 4 weeks for kicking to the face
Elliot - 1 week shoulder charge to head of player in ruck
Steyn - 5 weeks tip tackle

Given the histories it is harsh to treat two cleanskins like Latu and Skelton similar to Steyn and DuPlesis.

I wonder if Lyndon Bray has visited Canterbury yet?

 

[Slim 293]

Both of their sentences were originally reduced from entry point of 4 weeks because of their record............

Latu copped an extra 2 as SANZAR are trying to stamp this out of the game and he was the main offender.............

The findings seem pretty straightforward in this case.