What is wrong with the Tahs

[Inside Shoulder]

We supporters are just as bad, when Betham was called up the consensus was "WTF he is not up to this" but he went all right. Give another dozen of these guys a run and you might see some urgency and commitment to play for 80 minutes from the current squad.

A point i made some time ago: stop rearranging the deckchairs and just pick the next bloke in that position even if he's playing colts!

 

[jay-c]

there is a lot of issues at the tahs but for me the biggest issue is the persistance with losers in the team or better described "not winners"
as long as i have watched the team the tahs always keep in there squad players who wouldnt make the cut in any other team (maybe the force) i assume its the friends in high places sydney uni contacts but something stinks when it comes to handing out contracts in waratah land

 

[I like to watch]

The Sydney Uni guys seem to go ok for the other franchises

 

[Scarfman]

I'm going to try to kill two birds here.

TahJ says that there's no cultural problem. FatProp - in another therad - says that you shouldn't need a skills coach by the time you get to this level. I reckon both are wrong.

The Crusaders are easily the best Super Rugby side ever, right? What do they do well? The little things. The catch and pass. The body height. The picking the right option every single time. The concentrating for 80-minutes.

It is my firm belief that any side that gets the little things right will win the comp. The Tahs have the cattle to do it, but no willingness to face the fact that they are an absolutely shithouse rugby "team".

 

[Wallatahs]

I'm going to try to kill two birds here.

TahJ says that there's no cultural problem. FatProp - in another therad - says that you shouldn't need a skills coach by the time you get to this level. I reckon both are wrong.

The Crusaders are easily the best Super Rugby side ever, right? What do they do well? The little things. The catch and pass. The body height. The picking the right option every single time. The concentrating for 80-minutes.

It is my firm belief that any side that gets the little things right will win the comp. The Tahs have the cattle to do it, but no willingness to face the fact that they are an absolutely shithouse rugby "team".

I agree - it's the little things that are killing us, and as Scarman has noted, concentrating for 80-minutes and picking the right options have cost us dearly.
I could be wrong, but I think we've lost 5 games by 4 or less points, each of which were winnable, and each of which were lost as a result of either a poor option at the death (Reds, Bulls) or a short lapse in concentration somewhere in the second half (Force, H'landers, Crusaders).

 

[rugbysmartarse]

Well what about the dalliance with Andrew Johns?

Look, I'm not proud of it, but I was very drunk and it was a once off thing.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I agree - it's the little things that are killing us, and as Scarman has noted, concentrating for 80-minutes and picking the right options have cost us dearly.
I could be wrong, but I think we've lost 5 games by 4 or less points, each of which were winnable, and each of which were lost as a result of either a poor option at the death (Reds, Bulls) or a short lapse in concentration somewhere in the second half (Force, H'landers, Crusaders).

I reckon you need a skills coach more than a "restarts" coach!

 

[Braveheart81]

Concentration and poor decisions at key times (arguably pretty close to the same thing) have cost us immensely.

To take Friday's loss for an example, we had a 5 metre scrum with our feed. Clearly the plan was for Lopeti Timani to take the ball off the back of the scrum and hit it up for one phase then presumably have a clearing kick.

That was fine in theory but then our scrum got pushed backwards and screwed partially. It meant Timani picked the ball up under pressure and had to run round further before he could start going forward due to the scrum being screwed. It meant he got smashed and tackled into the in-goal which cost us a five metre scrum and subsequently the game.

As soon as the scrum was under pressure a decision had to be made to scrap the plan and just have McKibbin pick up the ball, pass to someone deep in the in-goal for a clearing kick. Even hacking the ball into touch 15 metres out would have probably saved the game.

The problem was I don't think we even had a kicker positioned deep in goal at that stage. There was a Plan A, but not even any consideration that a Plan B might be required.

This to me really summed up our season. We've been in the right place to win lots of games but have just made really poor decisions or skill errors at crucial times.

I'm pretty depressed at the moment. That loss on Friday night really hurt.

 

[fatprop]

I'm going to try to kill two birds here.

FatProp - in another therad - says that you shouldn't need a skills coach by the time you get to this level. I reckon both are wrong.

that was for the Wobs, and I stand by that, it shouldn't be needed by that elite group.

The Tahs? sure ............ learning to catch and pass, running onto the ball at pace - on the advantage line, learning how to run support lines; would be a start,

 

[Braveheart81]

As much as I was a fan of him as both a player, and coach of Eastern Suburbs, it would seem that Scott Bowen isn't really achieving results with the Waratahs.

It would seem that we are consistently struggling in areas he is meant to be looking after. If someone from the coaching staff is to get the chop, it would seem like it could be him.

Judging from this season, it would also seem like Alan Gaffney could be a bit over the hill.

 

[mudskipper]

What’s wrong with the Tahs... there is no understanding between the playmaker, forwards or backs... Carter needs to be removed to find a new way for the backline; it has to happen because after several seasons the Tahs backs have the same issue. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) gets no ball or only gets it when the defence is on top of him, the wingers timing is all out and balls are thrown behind them... Barnes was just loosing his cool on Friday and getting no where… He needs to keep his cool and focus on what he can achieve against the weeks opposition…

It appears the forwards are separate to all running ball play and are just following the pill around the park with no plan to get involved…
...

 

[Inside Shoulder]

So what's you back line?

 

[rugbysmartarse]

So what's you back line?

with an eye to next season:

9 mckibbon, 10 foley, 11, Kingston, 12 Barnes, 13 Horne, 14 Paka, 15 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

and here's the trick: if it doesnt work, dont immediately ditch it. Foley needs a few turns to get it at 10 so we should give them to him now when there's nothing on the line. Berrick should be aiming for that gold 12 shirt, so look to cement his game there. Horne paka and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) because we have no one else really. Injuries aside it would be 11 Kingston, 13, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), 14, Turner 15 Mitchell

 

[Braveheart81]

I think the biggest problem with the Tahs backline is that we are lacking players who read the game well.

The absence of Bernard Foley in the last few weeks has been really telling. Most of our backline penetration has disappeared without him. He seems to have the ability to pick when to receive the ball and runs smart angles always putting pressure on the defence.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Rob Horne just don't seem to do this anywhere near as much.

Barnes can throw a really well timed pass if the players around him give him the options. The Rob Horne try was case in point. We had decoy runners in motion and Horne came to the line at a good angle in space and Barnes threw a great flat ball to put him away. Unfortunately this has been a really rare even this season.

We miss Drew Mitchell massively (as well as Kurtley Beale) who both have the ability to pick their moments well and receive the ball in space.

Rob Horne and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) are both skilful players but they need players around them to create opportunities for them.

With Barnes not being in his best form and Foley out we just look aimless.

I'd like to see:

9. Pretorius 10. Foley 11. Pakalani 12. Barnes 13. Horne 14. Kingston 15. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) be given a shot.

 

[mudskipper]

next year, frankly Pretorius needs to be playing and is too dangerous not to use, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is wasted at 15 play him at 12, 11 sign a better player, Horne/Turner 13, Paka 14, move Mitchell back to 15, so I guess Foley 10 and Barnes to share 10 I guess... I feel Barnes has become a negative player which is sad and perhaps playing to his coaches game plan, I don't know.

 

[BPC]

As soon as the scrum was under pressure a decision had to be made to scrap the plan and just have McKibbin pick up the ball, pass to someone deep in the in-goal for a clearing kick. Even hacking the ball into touch 15 metres out would have probably saved the game.

It was pretty ridiculous that McKibbon just stood there and watched the scrum go backwards so Lopeti had to bend and pick up the ball while being shunted backward. This why Pretorius should be playing. McKibbon may have a better pass but Pretorius makes better decisions. A weak pass should be able to be fixed. Its a lot harder to fix a player who does think beyond the immediate instructions.

 

[Slim 293]

So, let's recap...

What's wrong with the Tahs?

- Skills?

- Coaching?

- Tactics?

- Kicking? Too much kicking?

- Player recruitment/development?

- Injuries to one of the 10 flankers and the backup waterboy?

- The city of Sydney?

- The culture?

- Attitude?

- The prissy flower emblem?

- Sky blue? (Hardly an intimidating colour)

- The fans?

- The administration?

- The private school system?

- No decent flyhalf since Ella?

- The Brumbies (because they took some of those players the Waratahs might have considered in hindsight after the Brumbies played them)?

- Sydney Uni?

- The Shute Shield (or, Australian rugby would be stronger if we just had every single player located in the Upper to Lower North Shore!)?

- Everyone elses fault (this includes every other team local and abroad)?

- Rugby league?

- Homebush?

- Grumbles, and the Sydney media?

- Joel Madden?

 

[Braveheart81]

It was pretty ridiculous that McKibbon just stood there and watched the scrum go backwards so Lopeti had to bend and pick up the ball while being shunted backward. This why Pretorius should be playing. McKibbon may have a better pass but Pretorius makes better decisions. A weak pass should be able to be fixed. Its a lot harder to fix a player who does think beyond the immediate instructions.

I don't think you can just blame McKibbin for that. I don't think a kicker was even in position deep in the in goal.

I think the decision comes down to a variety of players including Robinson, Barnes and Mumm who could have likely made the call prior to the scrum to not have a Plan B in place should things not proceed as planned.

 

[jay-c]

following on from my 'not winners' whinge
tilse (10 games in 7 seasons- good to know where my moneys going:wouldnt make any other aus province)
fitzpatrick( has he developed at all since he finished school? as weak in the scrum as he was 5 years ago:wouldnt make any other aus province)
mumm (crap this year cept for one highlight:wouldnt start in any other aus province)
alcock(recently has been ok but still wouldnt make any other province)
mccutchen(injured now but hasnt shown enough in the last seasons to suggest hed make any other province)
halangahu(hasnt held a start unless filling in for an injury in 7 seasons and yet is given the c at the start of the year, if there was ever a need for an eps...)
special mention: carter> has had his moments and surely desrves his contract but would u pick him over harris, tapuai, oconner, mccabe? he'd start at the force i guess...

 

[Slim 293]

jay-c....

Fitzpatrick hasn't played this season due to injury...