Where to for Super Rugby?

[kiap]

The view from Nedlands:

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August 4​

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THE SUPER RUGBY SAGA: THE SMOKING GUN​

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As lead singer Mark Knopfler told us in the Dire Straits hit Industrial Disease, when two men say they’re Jesus, one of them must be wrong.​

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And so it is with the Super Rugby saga, with both RugbyWA and the ARU remaining confident as Sydney QC (Quade Cooper) Bernard Coles prepares to hand down his much-anticipated decision on this week’s brief arbitration hearing, which took less than two days.​

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So what are the potential outcomes and ramifications for the Force? And what are the wildcards lurking in left field?​

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Here’s how your correspondent is seeing things.​

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1. What happens if Coles rules in favour of RugbyWA next week?​

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Happy days. The Force will be spared from the axe and safeguarded in the Super Rugby competition until 2020. Such a ruling would leave the ARU with two options – axe the Rebels or, if that’s too hard, tell SANZAAR they can’t cut an Australian team.​

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2. Is it the end of the line for the Force if the decision goes against RugbyWA?​

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No. A loss at arbitration would see RugbyWA roll out Plan B, which would probably entail some sort of Supreme Court action. Hypothetically, one such basis for a fresh legal challenge by RugbyWA would be if the arbitration hearing turned up documents suggesting someone at the ARU, perhaps even CEO Bill Pulver, already had an inkling that SANZAAR planned to chop an Australian Super Rugby team when the ARU signed the alliance agreement with Force. Now that would be a smoking gun….​

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3. What will happen regardless of the arbitration decision?​

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The Own the Force fund needs to be re-launched. Andrew Forrest’s pledge to provide interest free loans to Force supporters wanting to back the Own The Force fund is a huge leg up – with no strings attached. Amid all the confusion over the Force’s future, the fund now needs to be marketed and promoted to attract the broadest possible support base. For what it’s worth, Twiggy’s generosity has been rewarded in spades courtesy of a recent surge in the iron ore price which has seen the value of his shareholding in FMG increase by about $500 million in the past fortnight. Lovely darts Twig.​

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4. What are the wildcards?​

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The two obvious wildcards are the ARU Board and Melbourne businessman Andrew Cox.​

If an Australian team is to be axed from Super Rugby, that decision ultimately rests with …​

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… <snip> …​

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Finally, the late mail is that Bernard Coles could hand down his decision as early as Monday or Tuesday – which suggests it’s an open and shut case.​

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As always, stay tuned….​

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Read more: http://nedlandsrugby.com.au/2017/08/04/super-rugby-saga-smoking-gun/​

 

[bedandbreakfast]

Don't forget this from later on...

http://nedlandsrugby.com.au/2017/08/04/breaking-super-rugby-news-time-tonight-rebels/

Well folks, after moving at a glacial pace since April, tonight there is frenzied activity in the Australian Super Rugby saga. And that activity might just have delivered the ARU a golden opportunity to finally deliver on its SANZAAR mandate to axe an Australian Super Rugby team – the Rebels.
The sudden burst of action followed confirmation today from Andrew Cox that his private Imperium group had transferred ownership of the Rebels licence to the Victorian Rugby Union (VRU). Cox was always a reluctant player in this saga and has now sought to wash his hands of it. Cox had also stated he would not negotiate to sell the licence to the ARU if that meant the Rebels would be axed. Instead, he has simply passed the parcel.
The critical point is that the transfer of the Rebels licence from Imperium to the VRU was done without the approval of the ARU, which has effectively been kept in the dark.
That leaves the ARU in a pivotal position in either of two scenarios.
Scenario 1 is that Cox is in breach of the Rebels licence conditions by not seeking ARU approval to transfer ownership to the VRU. Scenario 2 is that the ARU has the power to block the transfer of the Rebels licence to the VRU. That is tonight the subject of an ARU investigation.
Either way, the ARU now has a trigger to resolve the Australian Super Rugby saga once and for all. What’s more, Cox has handed the ARU an opportunity to make that critical call before Bernard Coles hands down his decision on the ARU-RugbyWA arbitration hearing next week.
Your columnist declared back on May 11 that the Force would survive the Super Rugby cull. Tonight’s drama certainly supports that.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

What would Cox's motivation be for this?

 

[daz]

Whoever wrote that could get a job as a rugby journo with one of the mainstream papers; It's like panda and smith had a WA love child.

 

[daz]

What would Cox's motivation be for this?

Cox has, at a minimum, Tim North QC (Quade Cooper) advising him. I am pretty sure they are not going to make such an amateur error such as to forget to enact one of the supposed key requirements to notify the ARU.

The fact they appear not to, suggests the mentioned loophole has been found, opened and jump through.

And the timing? Why didn't they wait? Well, someone clearly knows something about the likely outcome of the arbitration. Perhaps Cox
/VRU is locking away the Rebels safety because the Force are going to win.

Either way, it appears we live in interesting times.

 

[kiap]

Whoever wrote that could get a job as a rugby journo with one of the mainstream papers; It's like panda and smith had a WA love child.

Relax, lads.

A little two-way traffic evens up the wear on the road.

But, whatever Cox's motivation, we cannot write off the Rebels just yet. The man taking the reins in his stead, VRU's Tim North, is a Queen's Counsel in his own right.

Might just know what he's doing in this ownership transfer business.

Keep the five alive.

 

[Brainstrust]

there is nothing surer that Tim North , QC (Quade Cooper), would be well aware of the Rebels legal position involving such a deal. Even if it is arguable it will tie up the ARU in court well past any cut off date for SANZAR needs to form a super comp next year with only 15 teams. Reading earlier posts it sounds like they have the right to transfer the license if it is debt free, a clause provided by the ARU it seems.

 

[lou75]

Cox has, at a minimum, Tim North QC (Quade Cooper) advising him. I am pretty sure they are not going to make such an amateur error such as to forget to enact one of the supposed key requirements to notify the ARU.

The fact they appear not to, suggests the mentioned loophole has been found, opened and jump through.

And the timing? Why didn't they wait? Well, someone clearly knows something about the likely outcome of the arbitration. Perhaps Cox
/VRU is locking away the Rebels safety because the Force are going to win.

Either way, it appears we live in interesting times.

I like your analysis there. Pretty sure that good old Tim North QC (Quade Cooper) knows a thing or two about the law and would not do anything stupid.
If the decision has been made, the only reason for the delay in releasing it, IMO , is so that the parties involved (subject to a v strict gag order) have time to plan their response, and maybe only the ARU knows the outcome at this stage - because surely Force would have leaked if they knew. It would definitely be good timing to shore up the Rebels under VRU ownership knowing that the Force are safe too - that would leave the ARU with a little problem and they seem to be squirming about claiming they have not been contacted when it would stand to reason that Tim North would have been in daily contact with them especially about something like this.

 

[TSR]

Can anyone tell me how this ends well?

I am happy enough to keep 5 teams - despite the current enormity of the task of building depth in Australian rugby.

But I can't see anyway that SANZAAR are now going to turn around and accept a 5th team back into the comp after all parties agreed to the changes.

i can only hope like hell that Pulver negotiated some contingency in the event that they lost a legal challenge to remove a team. This is an amateurish cock up of ridiculous proportions. Whatever the outcome of the arbitration next week, this shit show is far from done.

 

[lou75]

Can anyone tell me how this ends well?

I am happy enough to keep 5 teams - despite the current enormity of the task of building depth in Australian rugby.

But I can't see anyway that SANZAAR are now going to turn around and accept a 5th team back into the comp after all parties agreed to the changes.

i can only hope like hell that Pulver negotiated some contingency in the event that they lost a legal challenge to remove a team. This is an amateurish cock up of ridiculous proportions. Whatever the outcome of the arbitration next week, this shit show is far from done.

We could keep the five teams and only play four each week, one has a bye every week…

 

[No4918]

Can anyone tell me how this ends well?

I am happy enough to keep 5 teams - despite the current enormity of the task of building depth in Australian rugby.

But I can't see anyway that SANZAAR are now going to turn around and accept a 5th team back into the comp after all parties agreed to the changes.

i can only hope like hell that Pulver negotiated some contingency in the event that they lost a legal challenge to remove a team. This is an amateurish cock up of ridiculous proportions. Whatever the outcome of the arbitration next week, this shit show is far from done.

1. The timeframe for this ending well expired as soon as the 48-72 hour window closed.

2. Pulver contingency???? Bahahhahahahhahahahhahahahahhahahahahha

 

[RugbyReg]

Rebels go. Force stay.

More money in the game.

Wallabies start improving.

2020 a new comp starts with 5 oz teams, Japan, Fiji and perhaps another PI team. Local broadcaster. Prime time tv every week.

SAF head north. Kiwis go "hang on what about us?"

 

[TSR]

I'm no legal expert Reg, but Tim North is. It seems very unlikely to me that the ARU will be able to get rid of the Rebels without serious reprecussions.

 

[p.Tah]

I'm stunned the VRU (or any of the State Unions) have $1

 

[Brainstrust]

Relax, lads.

A little two-way traffic evens up the wear on the road.

But, whatever Cox's motivation, we cannot write off the Rebels just yet. The man taking the reins in his stead, VRU's Tim North, is a Queen's Counsel in his own right.

Might just know what he's doing in this ownership transfer business.

Keep the five alive.

I am a long time suffering Tahs supporter so in the end Im not directly affected but I can sympathise with the Rebels and Force supporters. As much as the Tahs frustrate me , they're my team and I wouldnt want them gone. so I'm with kiap . "keep the 5" . the answer to oz rugby depth is not culling a team. it is coaching and player development at all levels. in case we have missed it, the game in the southern hemisphere is under siege, here and in NZ from cashed up northern hemisphere clubs. the kiwis are losing plenty of high quality players as well. Cruden , Mackenzie, Lowe just a couple that come to mind. this week Deegan has announced hes going to Ireland, so it not the number of teams, the challenge is providing plenty of opportunity and a decent income to players. dispersing 6-8 quality players from a "culled" club in year 1 will only marginally improve performance on the field for possibly 1 team only if they pick up the majority of players. in 3 years we will be looking to only have 3 teams for the same incorrect notion that it will improve us but we will still have overlooked the underlying problem of coach and player development, and opportunity and income. As far as im concerned if the governing body invested as much time in building the code as it seems to be spending tearing it down, then we wouldnt even be at this point.

 

[kiap]

Wallabies start improving.

2020 a new comp starts with 5 oz teams, Japan, Fiji and perhaps another PI team. Local broadcaster. Prime time tv every week.

Totally on board with these thoughts.

However, trying to wipe the Rebels now to get to that point in three years time?

Better to wipe the ARU now instead.

In a perverse way, I would not mind seeing this escalate to a full-on supreme court case.

Pulver submitting answers as testimony.

Even old mate Rob Clarke and good buddy Todd Day would be pulled back in. Resigning won't be enough of a sick note.

 

[TOCC]

So what's the go with this VRU deal?
Suggestions that it's backed by the state government, which i struggle to believe, what interest does the Vic Govt have in clearing the debts of a professional rugby union team? How long will they be willing to cover ongoing deficits?

 

[kiap]

Those are right questions. The financial footing for the Rebels (likewise the other teams) has to be in place. Otherwise they disappear soon enough anyway. They need to be taking available avenues.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Rebels go. Force stay.

More money in the game.

Wallabies start improving.

2020 a new comp starts with 5 oz teams, Japan, Fiji and perhaps another PI team. Local broadcaster. Prime time tv every week.

SAF head north. Kiwis go "hang on what about us?"

Pity no one within Aus Rugby has the nous to pull that off.

 

[RugbyReg]

Totally on board with these thoughts.

However, trying to wipe the Rebels now to get to that point in three years time?

Better to wipe the ARU now instead.

In a perverse way, I would not mind seeing this escalate to a full-on supreme court case.

Pulver submitting answers as testimony.

Even old mate Rob Clarke and good buddy Todd Day would be pulled back in. Resigning won't be enough of a sick note.

Yes. Sorry. A total tear down and rebuild of the ARU too.