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Where to for Super Rugby?

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Alan Cameron (40)
Cyclopath

I am almost scared to post this, given the responses about my use of soccer and AFL in particular in my examples as well as other sports at times.

The tenor of my arguments centres around two core issues. First decades of miss management. Second this miss management has been used by the same management to portray the game in a poor light creating a lack of faith in rugby as a game. Essentially blaming the game and the circumstances they find themselves in, as the issue, not their inept management.

The combination of the above has stymied both to, inhibit the development of a national domestic competition and has created a media that very often supports a, inefficient management. As a consequence, many decision makers, people in lower to middle management, defend, protect and argue, in favour of the status que.

Super Rugby decided to shrink, and given existing ratings and crowds, rugbys ability, to enter a period of growth is questionable and getting more difficult as each year passes, using existing management practices and Super Rugby as the flag bearer for rugby.

We need to break the golden chains, tiring us to Super Rugby, where we hope others will earn enough they can share with us their spoils.

Rugby needs to develop a plan “B”. Critically rugby needs to be open, transparent and inviting so we get feedback from the bottom up and yes it will take 3 to 4 years to get it going. Or we create a top down “””Nobody Really Cares””” competition in 3 to 6 months.

In a recent article highlighting the differences in philosophy between rugby and other codes, also illustrating the faith soccer people have in their game, Archie Fraser said in an article on expanding the A-League.

“”Despite falling crowds and TV viewing figures and the negativity surrounding the unresolved congress issues, Fraser believes the local game is on the cusp of an electrifying era.”””””
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
“”Despite falling crowds and TV viewing figures and the negativity surrounding the unresolved congress issues, Fraser believes the local game is on the cusp of an electrifying era.”””””



Well, if he says so...........
 

waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)
WTF else is he gunna say? The game's fucked no matter what we do? I'd give him 11/10 for originality but ain't no-one ever gunna say it, is there?
 

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
Was interested to see some figures that say TV viewing on super rugby is up 10% this year. And also that more people watch Super rugby in Europe than in Aus, and so gives a clue I think why Sanzaar wants to keep SA games, as they are good viewing times for NH! And so Sky sports etc up there no doubt pay pretty well for the rights.
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
But since you posted a link, some figures:

Change in crowd sizes
56df4f577c11201614aa80744be7ff747c5fd2e2f62a87133b81e69be1a61b5f.png


f53654db048c3b1a8c80b355a4df866521be6766ed0da1a440e91081c09b1331.png


2d325f47b101126d9f6901c6bf8fb334e9a9df13c7dbdb5c42e5b15214e02827.png


TV viwers
2d70825cae5e91fe4179261915114b6264b587a8a9a12bd05ee76eac864677bf.png


2015-2017 change in crowd sizes
393f0be15ab7d9f24dedc6b5df3ca04ab19d181140ec6d9fb1762989b4e5cadf.png
 

Strewthcobber

Andrew Slack (58)
I have seen that and it's been out a while.

No mention I can see of the year-on-year TV increase, so are there other figures?
I suspect Dan54 is referencing a planetrugby thread, which in turn pulls figures from our very own 2018 TV and crowd numbers thread.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...-and-crowd-numbers.18159/page-35#post-1021599

So head there (note these are based off a spreadsheet I keep which records the weekly ratings published each week. They correspond pretty well with newspaper articles that come out occasionally - my numbers will be low though, as they are based on overnight figures and not the full monthly report
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
I suspect Dan54 is referencing a planetrugby thread.
It's all very circular because that's where I copied the images above.

No this-year vs last- year figure on PR that I can see, Dan54?

spreadsheet I keep which records the weekly ratings published each week. They correspond pretty well with newspaper articles that come out occasionally - my numbers will be low though, as they are based on overnight figures and not the full monthly report


Are you saying TV is up 10%?

Your TV figures might be low, but I'd suggest your attendance figures will be high. Due to non-reported crowds, etc, etc.

Same for this crowd chart by team (at least this time it's not purely nicked - a bit of markup added)

ij0DSSc.png
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Clearly the Super Rugby brand is dying/dead and I can't see it being resurrected back to former glories but it's a shame so many have stopped paying attention this year.

I think it has been one of the best competitions in years with many high quality games.

The best Australian conference games have been leagues ahead of the dour affairs that seemed to plague us in the past.
 

Strewthcobber

Andrew Slack (58)
No this-year vs last- year figure on PR that I can see, Dan54?




Are you saying TV is up 10%?
See Working Class Rugger's post in that thread

Average Tv audience for Oz games is up 10% for the figures I have ( which is pretty much all of them). Apples for apples with last year's games on average - but cumulatively down based on less games

I don't bother with average crowd figures because so many are missing. Hopefully that article has access to better numbers otherwise it's pretty much worthless


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
See Working Class Rugger's post in that thread

Average Tv audience for Oz games is up 10% for the figures I have ( which is pretty much all of them). Apples for apples with last year's games on average - but cumulatively down based on less games
Thanks, I understand now.

Without the spreadsheet, I'd suppose my summary might be like this:
  • Lowly rating Force games have been swapped for No rating moondog games roughly from the same time zone.
  • The rest of the Oz soup games (with more Eastern prime-time slots) rate about the same as last year.
  • Last year was about the worst there's been for Oz soup TV
  • The cumulative Foxtel viewership has gone down this year compared to last.
Therefore the idea that TV viewing on super rugby is up 10% this yearis misleading, to say the least.

Fair comment?

I don't bother with average crowd figures because so many are missing. Hopefully that article has access to better numbers otherwise it's pretty much worthless

Yep. Certainly inflated, I'd agree.

And I doubt they have found the missing numbers.
 

Strewthcobber

Andrew Slack (58)
Yep. Certainly inflated, I'd agree.

And I doubt they have found the missing numbers.
I have about 358,000 total crowd for 2017 but missing 7 games (mainly rebels and a couple of force).

Is there a total for Aus teams in that article?


Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
No total.

Although, if you want some of his numbers, the author previously (I'd say in June 2017) infogramed this:

Average attendance for a professional rugby game in Australia in 2013 was 22,654, in 2016 it had fallen to 18,818, and this year so far has fallen to 11,187

Problem is, there is no stated source for any of his data; the figures can be "figures of fun". Let's just take them as a rough guide.

The decline goes back further than 2013 anyway.

But here's how to seek some positivity. In case you didn't know, Oz Supe crowds could be up by almost 10 percent!

Just the like the TV viewers.

Avg Attendance (from the marked up chart I last posted)
Brums 9.8 k
Rebs 8.1 k
Reds 15.5 k
Tahs 15.1 k
Total 48.6 k

divide by 4= 12.2 k

Avg Jun 2017: 11,187

Increase 9% (See what I did there?)
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
The problem is, deep down, Super Rugby franchises have just not won big supporter followings.


Maybe it goes right back to the day when some genius decided to drop the geographical element of the franchise names. So instead of the Auckland Blues, we just have the Blues. Only the rusted on know who the "Blues" are. Any new viewers from Australian would automatically assume that the "Blues" are from New South Wales, of course, but this is relatively trivial. But very few new viewers would be won over by the personalities of any of the franchises.


None of the franchises, except maybe the Crusaders, have developed a strong personality. And, by the way, the name "Crusaders" is offensive to Muslims.


Of course Super Rugby has no future. That much is patently obvious. What is not all that obvious is what can take its place at the second tier.
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
Clearly the Super Rugby brand is dying/dead and I can't see it being resurrected back to former glories but it's a shame so many have stopped paying attention this year.

I think it has been one of the best competitions in years with many high quality games.

The best Australian conference games have been leagues ahead of the dour affairs that seemed to plague us in the past.

Super rugby if it is going to continue needs at least major rebranding as the super rugby brand is tainted.

I struggle to get motivation to go to super rugby live game as don’t feel it is a product focused on meeting fans best interests or wants. Feels it is more about providing a product that suits nz and all blacks interests. Too much baggage around super rugby product.

Suspect a lot of oz and sa fans feel the same on this reflecting them leaving super rugby in droves. I also don’t feel Rugby Australia is prepared to really understand that the super rugby brand is too tainted and needs to distance itself from it to ensure the survival of professional rugby in this country.

Only way fans will get back on board is feeling a new competition is launched that has oz rugby fans best interests at heart as an entertainment product competing in a crowded sports market. And this new competition cannot have the words super rugby in its title as needs to distance itself from this to have any hope of success and bringing fans back in oz and sa.

One day I hope Rugby Australia wakes up to this reality before it is completely unrecoverable and too late.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I struggle to get motivation to go to super rugby live game as don’t feel it is a product focused on meeting fans best interests or wants. Feels it is more about providing a product that suits nz and all blacks interests. Too much baggage around super rugby product.


I find this stance so bizarre.

It's a game of rugby. I go to Waratahs games because I support the team. I prefer it to Shute Shield games because the standard is much higher.

I'm not taking a political position by attending a sporting event. I agree Rugby Australia needs to make some changes and Super Rugby needs to be restructured/renamed. Whatever we end up with is still going to be rugby matches and will probably involve a lot of the same teams.

Everything else is smoke and mirrors. I think people are kidding themselves if they think a different competition is going to attract new fans in droves.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
OK so lets for a second assume we are running back Super Rugby in 2020 and beyond, in the current format.

What can SANZAAR do to bring back fans?

I think the best option could be a leaf out of the Twiggy playbook, and going with rule variations.

Super Rugby's initial appeal was the style. It was rugby unleashed, emphasising open, running play with tries and action aplenty. Now we can debate how much the 2018 version is different to that, but in the minds of the fans it's stale.

So I'd be looking at scrum clocks, less stoppages, a directive to refs to play on and cut down TMO interjections, maybe reinstating a 4/5/6 try BP on top of the existing 3+ tries BP.

We can then rebrand Super as better, faster, stronger etc.

It's not ideal, but it might be the best option available.
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