Where to for Super Rugby?

[hoggy]

NZ have shown no appetite for a TT competition. I'd like to be wrong but I think further contraction of Super Rugby (played over 3 continents) is a more likely eventuality. Given the strength of test rugby (and especially if the Nations Championship gets the green light and brings in the promised revenue increase) it'll always be able to support Super Rugby at some base level. Even if Super Rugby continues to bleed fans I'd guess that 2 or 3 teams in each country (plus Jaguares) would be financially sustainable.

And I would be very weary of the so called Nations Championship, you sign up for 12 years and give control to a single entity, have we learnt nothing from Super Rugby, all for that promised pot of gold.
And even if we accept that formula, how does that assist Australian rugby, a shrinking domestic fan base to support the Wallabies, a continuation of death by a thousand cuts.

 

[Omar Comin']

And even if we accept that formula, how does that assist Australian rugby, a shrinking domestic fan base to support the Wallabies, a continuation of death by a thousand cuts.

I think that RA will work on the theory that people will continue to support the Wallabies regardless of what sits beneath it. They'll position rugby as being a big event sport rather than trying to compete week to week with the high frequency sports with geographical range like NRL, AFL and soccer.

I feel fairly pessimistic about it, but I guess if the elite professional level of the game in Australia were to shrink to 2 or 3 Super Rugby teams plus the Wallabies it might create room for a full season, semi-professional national club competition to form beneath it that could be run independently and focus on the grassroots and local rivalries etc.

 

[hoggy]

I think that RA will work on the theory that people will continue to support the Wallabies regardless of what sits beneath it. They'll position rugby as being a big event sport rather than trying to compete week to week with the high frequency sports with geographical range like NRL, AFL and soccer.

I feel fairly pessimistic about it, but I guess if the elite professional level of the game in Australia were to shrink to 2 or 3 Super Rugby teams plus the Wallabies it might create room for a full season, semi-professional national club competition to form beneath it that could be run independently and focus on the grassroots and local rivalries etc.

Agreed, I can see that happening. It protects the top (and self interest rules). And if it does allow for that level below to grow independently. However I'm more pessimistic as well.

 

[half]

Maybe its just me and maybe I am not that smart. But it appears Fox are about to go on a massive cost cutting excise and are clearly saying a number of sports they fund will not receive anywhere near the current funding they receive.

Those that rabbit on about not changing because of the loss of revenue are about to loose the revenue or have it greatly reduced.

The article says in part.-
https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...e-sports-after-417m-loss-20190513-p51msx.html

Media industry sources believe rights to Super Rugby and Wallabies tests, which expire in 2020, and soccer's A-League competition, could be among the sports affected by Foxtel's move to rein in spending. A Rugby Australia spokesman said: "We are in the very early stages of constructive discussions with Foxtel."

In another part it details Fox's key sports under threat and these are ,

soccer, rugby union, cycling, lawn bowls, surfing, Ironman, surf lifesaving, cricket, basketball and hockey.

NOW FOR THE MEGA TO THE POWER OF MEGA DIFFERENCE AND PLEASE DON'T SHOT THE MESSENGER AND UNDERSTAND WHATS BEING SAID.


Soccer has four years to sort out their issues and have mega changes in the pipeline planned to both engage their player base and growth their sport. They have been in a civil war for 3 years but they have forced an expansion of their competition, have or are creating a second division up and running within 18 months, and are transferring the running of the the A-League to the clubs rather than their governing body within 6 weeks. They have been taking action and not sitting on their hands wishing and hoping things will get better.

Rugby has refused to even acknowledge their is an issue even with SA sides moving to SA, having to cut the Force etc.

Every day we delay in inviting business people to take over and form a new competition will result in massive short falls in revenue compared to today.

I don't know whether to laugh, cry, say I told you so. scream see I was right, or give up in pity and despair, or to have one last go at encouraging common sense and workable solutions.

As I have been posting for yonks, doing nothing is the biggest risk to take. We have done nothing or moreover our governing body has done nothing.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Cutting funding to those sport will make next to no difference to foxtel's bottom line. I'd be surprised if there was even $80m worth of cuts available from those sports a year - especially as the FFA's contract still has years to run. They need $500m a year turn around

 

[hoggy]

They lost $417 million in 2018, that is hard to get your head around. In fact you wonder how long that is sustainable, you would need to drill those figures down.

 

[Adam84]

Did Foxtel lose $417 million in 2018? There was significant write-downs over the value the company following the merger of foxsports and Foxtel, I'm not entirely sure what their operating loss was though?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I think that RA will work on the theory that people will continue to support the Wallabies regardless of what sits beneath it. They'll position rugby as being a big event sport rather than trying to compete week to week with the high frequency sports with geographical range like NRL, AFL and soccer.

I feel fairly pessimistic about it, but I guess if the elite professional level of the game in Australia were to shrink to 2 or 3 Super Rugby teams plus the Wallabies it might create room for a full season, semi-professional national club competition to form beneath it that could be run independently and focus on the grassroots and local rivalries etc.

Quite frankly I think we're pretty much at this point now. We may have to start accepting a new truth in terms of our talent sourcing for the Wallabies in the near future. Were RA essentially starts to act more as an agency for players feeding into NH clubs while looking to get something akin the Major League Rugby up and running in the short term.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Quite frankly I think we're pretty much at this point now. We may have to start accepting a new truth in terms of our talent sourcing for the Wallabies in the near future. Were RA essentially starts to act more as an agency for players feeding into NH clubs while looking to get something akin the Major League Rugby up and running in the short term.

Yep sadly due to decades of neglect and incompetence it makes it harder to create something much more than what Omar and WCR suggest at this point- in otherword accepting more realistic scenario where ware at is downgrading your ambitions and probably following in SA's footsteps in allowing wallabies to be selected outside of Australia with no minimum number of tests. What a tragic case of decades of missed opportunity that has led us to our woeful current position.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Did Foxtel lose $417 million in 2018? There was significant write-downs over the value the company following the merger of foxsports and Foxtel, I'm not entirely sure what their operating loss was though?

Makes sense why rapid rugby trying to pursue FTA broadcast and other modern digital broadcast options (twitter etc). Pity RA has not had the vision to try and do something here as Foxtels busienss model struggles has been known for some time..

 

[liquor box]

The big issue regards a Trans Tasman competition has been the reluctance of New Zealand to commit to this. With the focus on the All Blacks, Super Rugby is a much better fit for them.

I can understand the NZ reluctance to give up Super Rugby.

What would they do if Australia pulled out?

Would a NZ and SA Super Rugby season be better than a NZ and AUS trans Tasman comp?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I can understand the NZ reluctance to give up Super Rugby.

What would they do if Australia pulled out?

Would a NZ and SA Super Rugby season be better than a NZ and AUS trans Tasman comp?

In fairness I can see why nz would be reluctant to look at a trans Tasman competition given RA’s past record and known current struggles rugby in this country has for relevance.

 

[liquor box]

In fairness I can see why nz would be reluctant to look at a trans Tasman competition given RA’s past record and known current struggles rugby in this country has for relevance.

but if they had to choose one or the other then surely a trans tasman competition is easier, fits tv better, allows for NZ teams to win most weeks, less travel etc.

I agree NZ would prefer other options, but would NZ and SA really work, with ARG and JAP?

 

[Dan54]

but if they had to choose one or the other then surely a trans tasman competition is easier, fits tv better, allows for NZ teams to win most weeks, less travel etc.

I agree NZ would prefer other options, but would NZ and SA really work, with ARG and JAP?

To be honest Liquor, after being back in NZ on weekend and watching Crusaders/Bulls at 5.30am in morning I actually think SA times can fit in better with NZ than Aus times which are 10pm, can watch some very good games over breakfast, rather than try and stay awake to midnight!

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ agreed, I seldom watch the Strayan Friday night game as I have work Saturday & seldom watch the Strayan Saturday night game as I'm generally reno-ing from ~7 Sunday (no power tools before 9, tho, I'm a considerate bloke like that ).

 

[kiap]

I also agree and, have said this for a long time: Australia should exit Super Rugby and leave it to NZ and SA.

It's going happen anyway. Supe, in its full-season transcontinental guise, is a failed model. It is incrementally and inexorably destroying rugby's viability. The game is on a bust.

TBH, I think even South Africa know this. New Zealand does not.

We need to get out - and salvage what's left.

 

[dru]

I feel fairly pessimistic about it, but I guess if the elite professional level of the game in Australia were to shrink to 2 or 3 Super Rugby teams plus the Wallabies it might create room for a full season, semi-professional national club competition to form beneath it that could be run independently and focus on the grassroots and local rivalries etc.

If RA continue a redaction to two franchises, inevitably NSW and Qld, then the chance for any form of National comp has flown the coop.

 

[hoggy]

I also agree and, have said this for a long time: Australia should exit Super Rugby and leave it to NZ and SA.

It's going happen anyway. Supe, in its full-season transcontinental guise, is a failed model. It is incrementally and inexorably destroying rugby's viability. The game is on a bust.

TBH, I think even South Africa know this. New Zealand does not.

We need to get out - and salvage what's left.

The issue we have is how do you fund this especially now it looks like Fox cash is going to be tight. The Wallabies are still profitable, and if we accept players can be picked from overseas. How do we set up a domestic level below this.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Always been the issue.
Work out how many teams you want and multiply by the average wage you want to pay your players. Double that for costs of running the team and the comp

 

[RebelYell]

RA are blind to the idea of actually trying to exit SANZAAR at Club level, despite what is staring them in the face.

NZ is blind to the idea of actually trying to exit SANZAAR at Club level, despite what is staring them in the face.

Taking this as read, and not changing, how about an alternative which sees Australian teams join with the Mitre 10 Cup - end of NRC, use existing Super Rugby brands, start with two in each division. YES, I know there is a hell of a lot of history in the NPC, but the crowds are appalling and this could re-ignite the competition. A good middle ground perhaps? (With Aus teams of course ineligible for Ranfurly Shield, so Horan-Little Shield remains for Australian derbies...)