Where to for Super Rugby?

[half]

This seems like the best place to post this - formal discussions were held today at Foxtel and they decided that Rugby Union will no longer be regarded as a 'marquee sport' in it's current format and thus a non-essential addition to their sports lineup when broadcasting re negotiations happen. This is significant as the fox sports brand itself will be undergoing a restructure with more streaming services (Kayo) being utilized in the coming years. The meeting wasn't held to specifically discuss the status of rugby union, however, it was a major talking point due to declining viewership and crowd numbers for super rugby. Barring some major changes in the next 18 months, they will move the product to become a dedicated streaming sport if they bother to make another deal with SANZAR at all, rather than have time slots available on their current fox sports 1, 2, 3 etc channels.

I believe this will be publicly discussed/announced in some form or another shortly, but my source was present when the meeting took place.

Can't say I am surprised and now all those posters who have bagged me forever because I have been SCREAMING this was coming and to develop a national domestic competition and that it was too dangerous to leave the revenue of Fox.

Where are your post now, and please listen.

We are starting way to late [about 4 years to late] and without a broadcast deal its way harder.

But to the heads of the RA tonight get on the phone and start a new competition, run, controlled and financed by business people.

Believe me July will be to late.

 

[half]

MLR comes with little risk for cashed up businessmen. It’s also based on the American model of 1 club towns, unless you’re NYC in a few sports.

and your alternative is

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

MLR comes with little risk for cashed up businessmen. It’s also based on the American model of 1 club towns, unless you’re NYC in a few sports.

So?

It still offers a reasonable model to look toward.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

The foxsports decsion is hardly surprising as I expect equally is the fact RA appears to have not planned for this, or rather had all their eggs in world league basket as something to save them.

So now super rugby broadbast revenues as our only salvation is about to be jettisoned......

Interesting times. Rapid rugby, MLR or something else....

Clearly Foxtel was not bought into Super Rugby involving 14 teams as round robin competition doing anything to arrest the decline......what a surprise......

 

[Adam84]

Can't say I am surprised and now all those posters who have bagged me forever because I have been SCREAMING this was coming and to develop a national domestic competition and that it was too dangerous to leave the revenue of Fox.

Where are your post now, and please listen.

We are starting way to late [about 4 years to late] and without a broadcast deal its way harder.

But to the heads of the RA tonight get on the phone and start a new competition, run, controlled and financed by business people.

Believe me July will be to late.

long time listener, first time caller..

Its fine to point out the obvious, its harder to offer a realistic solution, what you say isn't news to anyone but there aren't any immediate solutions either. It's been trending this way in an increasingly competitive market for the past 10 years with traditional broadcasters and content providers struggling to adapt their business model to an evolving market.

 

[half]

long time listener, first time caller..

Its fine to point out the obvious, its harder to offer a realistic solution, what you say isn't news to anyone but there aren't any immediate solutions either. It's been trending this way in an increasingly competitive market for the past 10 years with traditional broadcasters and content providers struggling to adapt their business model to an evolving market.

Adam84

I have offered solutions for a very very very very very very very long time to the power very very very long.

I have been calling for a national domestic competition since 1999. Further I have been saying for about two years how and who to invite to develop a national domestic competition based on US models with the one I preferred the MLS.

In addition I have posted in great detail how to achieve the above, actually very great detail. To suggest I have offered no solutions and what we should do is frustrating as I have been arguing often against almost constant ridicule from many nay most and only recently say the last three years have people started to accept that Super Rugby had huge issues and mega problems.

What I said in my post and I said please listen and I suggest to all to read, and understand what I am posting. We have until early July to get the people involved if we leave it latter it won't happen . Ask me why by July if you want ..

 

[Samson]

long time listener, first time caller..



First time caller with 271 likes yeah right

 

[Samson]

Just saw my Avatar...Love it, thanks Fellas.
Didn't know where else to post this.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Adam84

I have offered solutions for a very very very very very very very long time to the power very very very long.

I have been calling for a national domestic competition since 1999. Further I have been saying for about two years how and who to invite to develop a national domestic competition based on US models with the one I preferred the MLS.

In addition I have posted in great detail how to achieve the above, actually very great detail. To suggest I have offered no solutions and what we should do is frustrating as I have been arguing often against almost constant ridicule from many nay most and only recently say the last three years have people started to accept that Super Rugby had huge issues and mega problems.

What I said in my post and I said please listen and I suggest to all to read, and understand what I am posting. We have until early July to get the people involved if we leave it latter it won't happen . Ask me why by July if you want ..

Half we know your position and options presented over many years for us who have been here a while and yes you are right we need an alternative.

But are your options financially viable or indeed are any of options presented here financially viable. I don't know - many of us can work out what options are short straw options to explore but there may indeed be better options others more clever and experienced folk and with right resources to research (whether twiggy's team of the world or others) who can work it out and strategy how to trial and explore. Reality is no one happy with the status quo and most posting on here frustrated and want something better and desperately a path to a better future for professional rugby in oz.

Many of us have lived in despair but also hope but latter is a commodity that has diminished for many. What it is clear even to those most ardent RA supporters is that doing nothing is no longer an option and indeed left so late will be harder than ever to salvage but still doing nothing is not an option. Explore low risk options, look at higher risk options but with lower risk investment trial options, look at other options others can fund (cough Twiggyball), but most of all save us from this Super Rugby product no one wants anymore. Are you listening RA? That is what many of us frustrated fans (what is left of us) don't know.

And p.s pls piss off Alan Jones as you ain't any help here.

 

[Rebels3]

Trans-Tasman is where it’s at. There is absolutely no way NZ is going to fly over us to resume a competition on an even more reduced content with what would only be 10 teams. Let alone their broadcasters have less content at viewable times to commercialize.

We fall over, they fall over and vise versa in terms of a significant professional competition.

It’s the way of the future, it fits our providers needs (whoever they are going forward)

Weekly content, recognizable names/brands and times that can be commercialized for teams and broadcasters

 

[Mr Wobbly]

*snip*

Clearly Foxtel was not bought into Super Rugby involving 14 teams as round robin competition doing anything to arrest the decline..what a surprise..

I imagine the negotiations went something like -

RA: Hello Foxtel, we would like the same deal as last time (plus a bit more, please).

In exchange we are going to give you: fewer games to broadcast, 1 or 2 fewer home games for each team, half those local derbies that you like so much, and the real chance that there won't be an Aussie team in the finals. Waddaya think?

Foxtel: Nope.

 

[dru]

But are your options financially viable or indeed are any of options presented here financially viable.

It's the wrong question, particularly if this news proves correct. You have to ask if the alternative is less failed than the existing.

 

[Quick Hands]

It's the wrong question, particularly if this news proves correct. You have to ask if the alternative is less failed than the existing.

Particularly when even some of the leading advocates and supporters of Super Rugby now say that it's perfectly alright for the pro-level underneath tests to be loss making.

All the countries make their money from test rugby. The pro competition under that is a loss leader. It's how you have a domestic professional player pool at hopefully a high enough standard to help you succeed internationally. It will always be set up to run close to the bone financially. If you let people spend what they want, some teams can afford to spend more, most of the extra spending goes to players and teams send themselves broke. They could very easily shift more of the overall revenue achieved through broadcast deals from test rugby to Super Rugby but all that would do is push wages up. It wouldn't make it any more sustainable.

 

[half]

1. Half we know your position and options presented over many years for us who have been here a while and yes you are right we need an alternative.

""clutching at straws"" somewhere in you post

2. And p.s pls piss off Alan Jones as you ain't any help here.

.

Fully agree on AJ.

Thank you for your question re my alternatives are they any good, are they viable and compare to other posters.

Again thank you, its a fair and reasonable question so let me explain.

Some context, my work experience has often involved detailed analysis of business models and future gazing and many of my mentors where very tough on how you formed your opinion and a golden rule was to be dispassionate meaning only let the facts speak.

First part why I have I always said a National Domestic Competition is essential. For me its obvious I am unaware of any main stream successful competition anywhere in the world that is not a NDC. Further in Australia AFL, NRL, are build on the back of a NDC in addition so to is soccer & basketball, you can add today netball. So it was never going to work.

Second part why use a US based model. Reason if you look at how their system work especially the MLS it is a great way to invite business people in so they have control of the NDC but the method in which it operates is still directed by the national governing body.

Third part, viable and compare to others, IMO opinion and its humble. No Union in Australia has either the capital, both financial and intellectual ability to solve our issues, as for RA its impossible to reform it, so conflicted so many back room deals, so much baggage. We need the capital, connections, and business smarts of the business community to get us out of this. As for Shute Shield, Nobody Really Cares none have capital or any capacity to grow at a speed needed to stop rugby falling to hockey status.

As for""clutching at straws"", hopefully I am not, hopefully my suggestion make sense, if nothing else and it gives me no pleasure almost everything I have been saying will happen has and what I am saying now is rugby unions and boards today are incapable of solving our issues. We need capital, smarts and I can only see the business community having these.

 

[Rebels3]

I think they seriously need to look at running multiple competitions to keep engagement. I was listening to the NBA commisioner today and he referenced how his sport could improve and pointed to football by having several competitions in the one season, and how it engages fans as they can be performing poorly in one competition but still possible to win something in another. Wanting to keep fan bases engaged as long as possible with hope for success to a greater portion of their 30 brands in some form or another. So maybe we need a Trans-Tasman competition (9-10 weeks), as well as a shorter rejigged Super Rugby season (group phases with inclusion of Top League teams?) and then a purely National Competition with Aus only Super teams (4-5 weeks).

The beauty of running multiple competitions means you can diversify your broadcasting options. One can go on free to air, one could be exclusive to pay tv, one could be included in a streaming service etc.

 

[The Honey Badger]

I think they seriously need to look at running multiple competitions to keep engagement. I was listening to the NBA commisioner today and he referenced how his sport could improve and pointed to football by having several competitions in the one season, and how it engages fans as they can be performing poorly in one competition but still possible to win something in another. Wanting to keep fan bases engaged as long as possible with hope for success to a greater portion of their 30 brands in some form or another. So maybe we need a Trans-Tasman competition (9-10 weeks), as well as a shorter rejigged Super Rugby season (group phases with inclusion of Top League teams?) and then a purely National Competition with Aus only Super teams (4-5 weeks).

The beauty of running multiple competitions means you can diversify your broadcasting options. One can go on free to air, one could be exclusive to pay tv, one could be included in a streaming service etc.

Agree Rebels3.

Regular games at regular times.

Don't forget GRR, could have A fit here as well.

2 X NSW teams, 2 X Qld teams, possibly playing in different comps.

Alternating home games, week about.

There are plenty of players, that don't all want or expect $1M per year.

 

[Adam84]

Adam84

I have offered solutions for a very very very very very very very long time to the power very very very long.

I have been calling for a national domestic competition since 1999. Further I have been saying for about two years how and who to invite to develop a national domestic competition based on US models with the one I preferred the MLS.

In addition I have posted in great detail how to achieve the above, actually very great detail. To suggest I have offered no solutions and what we should do is frustrating as I have been arguing often against almost constant ridicule from many nay most and only recently say the last three years have people started to accept that Super Rugby had huge issues and mega problems.

What I said in my post and I said please listen and I suggest to all to read, and understand what I am posting. We have until early July to get the people involved if we leave it latter it won't happen . Ask me why by July if you want ..

I understand you’ve offered options, but I personally don’t believe you have offered realistic options, that is options which are financially viable.

I think we all realise it’s a broken system, and has been for some time. I think pro sport as a whole is also stuck in an awkward positions between leaning on traditional broadcasters(Foxtel and FTA) and leveraging new streaming alternatives.

 

[Quick Hands]

I understand you’ve offered options, but I personally don’t believe you have offered realistic options, that is options which are financially viable.

I think we all realise it’s a broken system, and has been for some time. I think pro sport as a whole is also stuck in an awkward positions between leaning on traditional broadcasters(Foxtel and FTA) and leveraging new streaming alternatives.

Super rugby isn't financially viable either. If it wasn't part of a larger broadcast deal involving test matches it would struggle to get much at all from the broadcasters. But financial viability isn't really the key factor - what's needed is a form of competition which will attract some interest from the Australian sporting public.

If we can't get a percentage of former supporters back, attract some new ones and be visible for the casual sports fan then rugby will not survive in the 21st century sports market.

 

[kiap]

Super rugby isn't financially viable either.

Correct, it loses money. You've got to ask which way is that going from here - north or further south?

If the Test match benevolent fund is also shaky, then Super rugby will need more adjusting.

Not to worry. I'm sure they'll announce another Super rollout of some sort. It's all they know.

 

[hoggy]

I think they seriously need to look at running multiple competitions to keep engagement. I was listening to the NBA commisioner today and he referenced how his sport could improve and pointed to football by having several competitions in the one season, and how it engages fans as they can be performing poorly in one competition but still possible to win something in another. Wanting to keep fan bases engaged as long as possible with hope for success to a greater portion of their 30 brands in some form or another. So maybe we need a Trans-Tasman competition (9-10 weeks), as well as a shorter rejigged Super Rugby season (group phases with inclusion of Top League teams?) and then a purely National Competition with Aus only Super teams (4-5 weeks).

The beauty of running multiple competitions means you can diversify your broadcasting options. One can go on free to air, one could be exclusive to pay tv, one could be included in a streaming service etc.

I can't agree with this approach, it is part of the reason how we have got to this point. So much rugby content just confuses the market. I cannot count how many times I've watched rugby with a so called casual fan who has no idea of teams or where they come from or what comp they are in. We can't just keeping adding content in the hope that something sticks.

What makes a successful product, simplicity, why is the AFL so good here, people can all relate and understand it and easily follow it.

Rugby on the other hand, that has to change.