Where to for Super Rugby?

[VassMan]

Reading all these great ideas is really getting me excited, fingers crossed I'm not just getting my hopes up and RA can get their act together. A merge of GRR and the Australian Super teams (and Sunwolves of course) would be my ideal!

In this hypothetical, I'm guessing Force, Brumbies, Rebels keep their names for brand recognition, but if there was more than 1 team in each NSW and Queensland how would that work with the Tahs and Reds?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Latest dropped kick podcast interview with Matt Hodgson On GRR worth a listen - very positive in way they are approaching it

 

[Forceright]

Reading all these great ideas is really getting me excited, fingers crossed I'm not just getting my hopes up and RA can get their act together. A merge of GRR and the Australian Super teams (and Sunwolves of course) would be my ideal!

In this hypothetical, I'm guessing Force, Brumbies, Rebels keep their names for brand recognition, but if there was more than 1 team in each NSW and Queensland how would that work with the Tahs and Reds?

The only major problem being that there is no way It will happen as long as Clyne & co are still on the board or involved in any way. RA still using the excuse that the Force was axed to save money when in reality it was to hijack the team. If it was about saving money then explain the millions thrown away on the Rebels & player contracts. Twiggy gave them a $70mill chance to redeem themselves, but Mindaroo won’t tolerate any dodgy deals or meddling by the RA. RA have been doing their utmost to sabotage & obstruct GRR from the get go.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Wasn't quite sure where to put this, because it's not a super rugby problem, but definately a rugby in general one.

Watched the last 10 mins of Reds v Tahs. Tahs up by two after an entertaining game with it all to play for.

At 69:45 on the game clock the Reds kicked the ball out. I recorded what happened from there.

1min 45 for the lineout (reserves coming on)
2 min 15 of play (with three kicks and a couple of errors)
4 min 40 of a scrum reset, scrum penalty, penalty kicked then kick off
2 min 15 of play (1 kick, and the Reds barely crossed the 50m line)
3min 10 for injury, penalty kick and then kickoff
17s of play
35 s for penalty and then a kick to end the game

So 15min 10s actual time
10min 15 game time
10+ mins of scrum resets, penalties, injuries and replacements
Less than 5 mins of ball in play

The Tahs show their experience to kill off the game and win by 8. Fans at the ground and on TV leaving disappointed

 

[liquor box]

Wasn't quite sure where to put this, because it's not a super rugby problem, but definately a rugby in general one.

Watched the last 10 mins of Reds v Tahs. Tahs up by two after an entertaining game with it all to play for.

At 69:45 on the game clock the Reds kicked the ball out. I recorded what happened from there.

1min 45 for the lineout (reserves coming on)
2 min 15 of play (with three kicks and a couple of errors)
4 min 40 of a scrum reset, scrum penalty, penalty kicked then kick off
2 min 15 of play (1 kick, and the Reds barely crossed the 50m line)
3min 10 for injury, penalty kick and then kickoff
17s of play
35 s for penalty and then a kick to end the game

So 15min 10s actual time
10min 15 game time
10+ mins of scrum resets, penalties, injuries and replacements
Less than 5 mins of ball in play

The Tahs show their experience to kill off the game and win by 8. Fans at the ground and on TV leaving disappointed

There have previously been calls for time to stop at scrums, penalties etc.

Would this be possible in Rugby? We don't have the benefit of play stopping every time there is a tackle like in league, there is no contest for the ball at the ruck so when we have 4-5 minutes of solid play it is a sustained effort for our players.

 

[Braveheart81]

So 15min 10s actual time
10min 15 game time
10+ mins of scrum resets, penalties, injuries and replacements
Less than 5 mins of ball in play

The Tahs show their experience to kill off the game and win by 8. Fans at the ground and on TV leaving disappointed

One issue that seems to arise here is that the team trailing rarely seems to try and encourage play to be sped up by rushing to the lineouts and scrums. There's one team (the leading team) actively trying to slow things down and the other team enabling it.

You would think that if the trailing team rushed to get in position it would put pressure on the referee to stop the clock for injuries or hurry the leading team up.

I guess when you're 70+ minutes into a bruising encounter that your team is losing it's hard to muster the enthusiasm to speed the game up even if it's probably essential to your chances of winning.

 

[Strewthcobber]

There have previously been calls for time to stop at scrums, penalties etc.

Would this be possible in Rugby? We don't have the benefit of play stopping every time there is a tackle like in league, there is no contest for the ball at the ruck so when we have 4-5 minutes of solid play it is a sustained effort for our players.

I think they should do that - would help with the time wasting, but it doesn't actually address the big issue for me which is the 5min gaps between play

And allowing time off for scrums penalties etc, may make that even worse.

 

[Beer Baron]

I watched the REbels Bulls game - same thing. But everything went to plan and it was sh!t for a neutral observer.
Kick to touch, line out, rolling maul, ball held in by Rebels so it was a penalty.
Another kick to touch, line out, rolling maul.

That was a boring stop/start passage of play - and everything went perfectly!

I went to my second AFL game in 12 years recently - there must have been 5 penalties (Which don't slow the game down) as they run to take the kick, no stoppages, no TMO, constant contest for the ball. Such a better spectacle for a neutral.

After that experience I chose watching the Bris lions game over rugby on the weekend.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think they should do that - would help with the time wasting, but it doesn't actually address the big issue for me which is the 5min gaps between play

And allowing time off for scrums penalties etc, may make that even worse.

The biggest black spot at the moment seems to be where there isn't really an injury but there's a stoppage for a scrum or lineout late in the game, some substitutions happen and players are getting attended to by trainers.

If there was someone down with a serious injury the clock would be stopped but because there isn't, the clock keeps ticking even though the players aren't ready to continue.

The priority needs to be that this sort of situation isn't taking minutes of the clock. The secondary need is to stop the five minute breaks for no good reason regardless of whether the clock is ticking or not.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I think they should do that - would help with the time wasting, but it doesn't actually address the big issue for me which is the 5min gaps between play

And allowing time off for scrums penalties etc, may make that even worse.

Play clocks are the answer. One minute to set and pack a scrum. 45 secs to form a line out. 30 seconds to kick off after points. If a players injured they can be handled off the pitch unless its serious .i.e. not cramp. Litigious enforcement with YC. Most of the crap at the moment is pure time wasting. Eliminate that.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I will add to that. Comparing both the Shute Shield and GRR games to that of Super Rugby at the moment I am getting a great deal more enjoyment out of watching the former as opposed to the latter. There's little to no time wasting going on. On Saturday, in the Fiji/Samoa GRR game there wasn't a single scrum reset. The ball certainly feels like it's in play more than in Super Rugby. And that's for both the SS and GRR.

I know there on different levels in terms of standard but there's something rotten going on in Super Rugby with all the 'gamesmanship' that's really hurting the spectacle and needs stamping out.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Some of that'd be because the GRR games "don't matter"

Barbarian games are usually pretty entertainment Ning without the gamesmanship as well

 

[Dctarget]

I don't watch many NH games, but are they comparatively more enjoyable than ours? I'd suggest (without any evidence) that they're not. I assume it's the intense parochialism that makes the matches good to watch.

So, is GRR an acknowledgement that we can't generate entertaining competition through rivalries and history, rather we have to do it through literally entertaining games?

I'm not fussed either way, as long as we get interest.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Some of that'd be because the GRR games "don't matter"

Barbarian games are usually pretty entertainment Ning without the gamesmanship as well

They actually do play for points. Are you saying the NRC games the Drua played last year didn't matter either? Because the squad that ran out there on Saturday were the Drua just wrapped in a different jersey and played the exact same way.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I don't watch many NH games, but are they comparatively more enjoyable than ours? I'd suggest (without any evidence) that they're not. I assume it's the intense parochialism that makes the matches good to watch.

So, is GRR an acknowledgement that we can't generate entertaining competition through rivalries and history, rather we have to do it through literally entertaining games?

I'm not fussed either way, as long as we get interest.

No. They aren't mutually exclusive. You can develop those rivalries while presenting the audience with an entertaining and compelling spectacle.

 

[hoggy]

Its a huge part of the problem here, the perception that Super rugby is just a glorified training squad for the national Teams, add Pay TV, schedules, resting of players, travel etc etc. As such engaging the audience is a huge factor.
Maybe that's why people say they prefer a 9-6 win in the mud, if your tribal and engaged do you need to be entertained.

 

[Strewthcobber]

They actually do play for points. Are you saying the NRC games the Drua played last year didn't matter either? Because the squad that ran out there on Saturday were the Drua just wrapped in a different jersey and played the exact same way.

Stick the Drua in Super Rugby and they'd be plenty entertaining as well.

But stick the Tahs or Reds in a one off showcase against the Force with an entertainment purpose and they'd be a pretty different to the last 10 minutes of a must win Super Rugby game.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Stick the Drua in Super Rugby and they'd be plenty entertaining as well.

But stick the Tahs or Reds in a one off showcase against the Force with an entertainment purpose and they'd be a pretty different to the last 10 minutes of a must win Super Rugby game.

That demonstrates my point. The conservatism they play with clearly isn't working and is actually proving counterproductive for all concerned. They look to over manage the situation instead of actually playing. Which would be fine I guess if Super Rugby existed in a vacuum and didn't have other competitors in which to compete with but clearly it doesn't.

A lot of that is in the form of time wasting or slowing the play. That needs to be addressed in order to drive more ball in play to appeal to audiences. Otherwise, what's the point of Super Rugby as a TV product. Might as well just play it behind closed doors if all it is and ever will be is a glorified trail run for the Wallabies.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Its a huge part of the problem here, the perception that Super rugby is just a glorified training squad for the national Teams, add Pay TV, schedules, resting of players, travel etc etc. As such engaging the audience is a huge factor.
Maybe that's why people say they prefer a 9-6 win in the mud, if your tribal and engage do you need to be entertained.

That's certainly how it appears to be treated by the national bodies. It's part of the reason why I'm interested in seeing how GRR evolves as it is set up as a commercial enterprise first and foremost. Which is something Super Rugby has needed to be for some time.

 

[hoggy]

That's certainly how it appears to be treated by the national bodies. It's part of the reason why I'm interested in seeing how GRR evolves as it is set up as a commercial enterprise first and foremost. Which is something Super Rugby has needed to be for some time.

I've watched many a boring NRL/AFL game, but you don't get the watching paint dry comments on Monday, they just move on.

Why can't rugby, IMO it comes down to the compromised nature of the competition, it will never change until that addressed.