Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

[Killer]

Half,


I am just guessing, but I venture to suggest that you do not appreciate the mindset of the average Western Australian.



When I worked for the Reserve Bank, the accepted wisdom was that the west was a kind of frontier. For starters, the time difference meant that Perth businesses operated for a large part of the day out of contact with the Eastern states, so they got used to making their own decisions and living by them.

The isolation has been broken down a bit, with the advent of much better technology, but it is still worth remembering that Perth is the most isolated city on the planet, and it is closer to Singapore than it is to the eastern state capitals.


They have turned out more than their fair share of entrepreneurs and sharks. Not just the aquatic variety, either.


The make of the board will not change just to appease them, that is for sure and certain. They are a relatively small fish, frankly, there are much bigger ones to fry.

Yes small fish relative to NSW and QLD but in rugby terms not so small, bigger than ACT and more than twice as big as Melbourne.
Not to mention the financial clout they carry versus even RA let alone any individual Union.

The bigger fish to fry I guess relates to the fact RA is living far beyond its means and is totally reliant on SANZAAR. Again not to mention the danger that a Twiggy competition potentially could pose to their revenue.

 

[ForceFan]

Crusaders ABs and Rebels Wobs will be unavailable for these games

Probably means that WF2018 has a chance to play the Rebels rather than WF2017.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Its quite smart.



7 games against 7 teams all in Perth.



He only has to pay the 7 visiting teams for match say $ 500, 000 per game, offset by crowd and sponsor income. Very clever very clever indeed.



The matches & squad.



Western Force 2018 squad

AJ Alatimu, Chris Alcock, Marcel Brache, Masivesi Dakuwaqa, Rod Davies, Andrew Deegan, Tevin Ferris, Jaque Fourie, Josh Furno, Peter Grant, Chris Heiberg, Rodney Iona, Feleti Kaitu’u, Brad Lacey, Kieran Longbottom, Ryan Louwrens, Cameron Orr, Harrison Orr, Leon Power, Ian Prior, Harry Scoble, Tom Sheminant, Brynard Stander.

Western Force 2018 fixtures

May 4 vs Fiji

May 13 vs Tonga

June 9 vs Rebels

June 22 vs Crusaders

July 13 vs Samoa

August 10 vs Hong Kong

August 17 vs TBC

And so we have probably learnt who are the other 5 IPRC candidates....Tonga, Samoa, Hong Kong, Fiji, and TBC

Be interested to see what broadcast arrangements are but assuming foxsports will lock that up.

 

[cyclopath]

OK, the trolling needs to stop.
AND, if posters have legitimate questions or issues to raise about what is maybe / possibly / allegedly going to happen that are reasonable, that should be accepted.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Masivesi Dakuwaqa - wasn't he playing league for Canberra raiders?

 

[Boof1050]

And so we have probably learnt who are the other 5 IPRC candidates..Tonga, Samoa, Hong Kong, Fiji, and TBC

Be interested to see what broadcast arrangements are but assuming foxsports will lock that up.

Assume wrong my friend! Someone mentioned today that these games will be on free to air. I’m pretty sure the Minderoo team wanted to give Fox a wide berth and were looking down the esports path as well.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Assume wrong my friend! Someone mentioned today that these games will be on free to air. I’m pretty sure the Minderoo team wanted to give Fox a wide berth and were looking down the esports path as well.

Hope that comes to pass. Would quite like to see these games.

 

[Lindommer]

IF this World Series Rugby is a success I could see it carrying on for a coupla years (bit like Downlands permanent fixtures against the Qld GPS schools on their bye weeks). And, hopefully, it could morph into the proposed IPRC with a few teams from east Asia + the Pacific trio; how hard would it be to get a permanent team up in Hong Kong? Then a transplanted team in Singapore could stack up. Add yer Alibaba fella from China and it starts to look feasible, and relatively compact compared to the current Super setup.

The beauty of some sort of IPRC is the much-reduced travel for Oz teams. The Kiwis? They've stated they wish to continue to play Saffer sides, so if they want to fly over Australia and the Indian Ocean, well let them. New Zealand's in a tough bargaining position here: they've got the quality rugby but not the money.

I suspect some sort of western Pacific/east Asian comp will eventually emerge in the next decade. What we in Australasia simply must do is resist any future attempts to expand our rugby comp to the Americas. That's not our job.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

IF this World Series Rugby is a success I could see it carrying on for a coupla years (bit like Downlands permanent fixtures against the Qld GPS schools on their bye weeks). And, hopefully, it could morph into the proposed IPRC with a few teams from east Asia + the Pacific trio; how hard would it be to get a permanent team up in Hong Kong? Then a transplanted team in Singapore could stack up.Add yer Alibaba fella from China and it starts to look feasible, and relatively compact compared to the current Super setup.

The beauty of some sort of IPRC is the much-reduced travel for Oz teams. The Kiwis? They've stated they wish to continue to play Saffer sides, so if they want to fly over Australia and the Indian Ocean, well let them. New Zealand's in a tough bargaining position here: they've got the quality rugby but not the money.

I suspect some sort of western Pacific/east Asian comp will eventually emerge in the next decade. What we in Australasia simply must do is resist any future attempts to expand our rugby comp to the Americas. That's not our job.

I can see a Hong Kong, Singapore and potentially the Sunwolves entering or moving across to join the Aus franchises plus a Fijian franchise. Find a 10th and we'll have our own time zone friendly competition to compete in. Reaching out into what could (and should in my opinion) become a major growth market for the game both on and off the field in the years to come. Tied in with other ideas mentioned previously by the IPRC group like women's Rugby (which we are seeing now) and a 7s circuit.

As for NZ. If SA is as important to them as they say then they can have it. I suspect the NH experiment isn't going as well as SA expected and we may see them look back toward Super Rugby or whatever form it takes in the future. Could actually work out in the end.

As for the Americas. That ship has sailed. Well and truly. Major League Rugby launches in April complete with significant media deals. First season will be compact with only 6 'regular season' games (participants have all been active over the last month in regards to games) involving 7 clubs but that number will jump to at least 10 in 2019 with a strong likelihood of 12.

The group behind it have set the limit of clubs to 16 in the short term to prevent over-extension. But every entrant has to meet extensive financial requirements to be able to compete and proof that they can sustain them for at least 5 seasons. As for Sth America. There's a push to launch an 8 team franchise league in 2019 (likely 2020).

It's actually quite the interesting concept. Super Rugby splits. We go the IPRC route and SA/Arg and NZ maintain some kind of Super Rugby set up. The MLR beds down and begins to develop its quality and potentially so does the Sth American structure. It would be fairly reasonable to think that all if all four find themselves in place in the coming seasons that they will all play during a fairly similar window.

Which brings into play an interesting opportunity. Working with the NH we could end up with an actual World Club Chmapionship set up. Would be amazing to see.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I can see a Hong Kong, Singapore and potentially the Sunwolves entering or moving across to join the Aus franchises plus a Fijian franchise. Find a 10th and we'll have our own time zone friendly competition to compete in. Reaching out into what could (and should in my opinion) become a major growth market for the game both on and off the field in the years to come. Tied in with other ideas mentioned previously by the IPRC group like women's Rugby (which we are seeing now) and a 7s circuit.



As for NZ. If SA is as important to them as they say then they can have it. I suspect the NH experiment isn't going as well as SA expected and we may see them look back toward Super Rugby or whatever form it takes in the future. Could actually work out in the end.



As for the Americas. That ship has sailed. Well and truly. Major League Rugby launches in April complete with significant media deals. First season will be compact with only 6 'regular season' games (participants have all been active over the last month in regards to games) involving 7 clubs but that number will jump to at least 10 in 2019 with a strong likelihood of 12.



The group behind it have set the limit of clubs to 16 in the short term to prevent over-extension. But every entrant has to meet extensive financial requirements to be able to compete and proof that they can sustain them for at least 5 seasons. As for Sth America. There's a push to launch an 8 team franchise league in 2019 (likely 2020).



It's actually quite the interesting concept. Super Rugby splits. We go the IPRC route and SA/Arg and NZ maintain some kind of Super Rugby set up. The MLR beds down and begins to develop its quality and potentially so does the Sth American structure. It would be fairly reasonable to think that all if all four find themselves in place in the coming seasons that they will all play during a fairly similar window.



Which brings into play an interesting opportunity. Working with the NH we could end up with an actual World Club Chmapionship set up. Would be amazing to see.

I was wondering if the invitation teams outside of those Super Rugby aligned were the potential iprc team candidates. But yes I would be gobsmacked if Samoa and Tonga were planned for simple reason they are financial basket cases, but great rugby nations. But involving them in supercharged NRC with world rugby money for sure would be great outcome.

Yes America's need to run their own race and got the groundswell and solid plans WCR as you outline. Interesting times as I have really enjoyed Sunwolves so far in our conference this season for simple facts 1) 3pm rugby for their home games works for me for Sunwolves home games versus games from 12am to 4am for SA games just don't 2) Sunwolves playing (so far) better brand of rugby 3) I have more affinity with Japan than SA due to both part of Asia and also (past) strong trading relationship.

I am not against occasional games against SA sides for conference playoffs for example but that is about it.

For me I could see HK, Singapore (maybe - not quite convinced), Fiji, Sunwolves being part of a bigger oz conference which includes the Force and other 4 oz Super Rugby sides longer term. Almost the makings for our national quasi rugby competition given time zone friendly- 8 definites, 1 maybe but would need at least 10 side imo. Anyhow interesting times ahead and pretty exciting from a glass half full approach to all this.

 

[cyclopath]

My "concerns" with what I've read so far are these:-
1. General inertia and other logistic issues might push the timeframes out a bit. Which might be significant with regards to the timing of other deals that might be relevant
2. The comp must develop to a standard that makes it a viable alternative. Wedging NZ out (intentionally or by default) could be a great cost. I believe we simply must have players competing with them regularly to push us forward


Hopefully I'm wrong. The programme drawn up for this year seems a good start.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I personally have been thinking the delays in announcing teams for IPRC is just the realisation of the really hard yakka it would be to establish a competition that 'potentially' only involves a team from a 'major' rugby nation (read: Force / Australia), and that indeed offer of a supercharged NRC would seem such a better option with Twiggy funding with proviso of course that RA offer something significant in return which of course would be re-entry of WA rugby side alongside other professional oz rugby sides - which are at the moment part of the current Super Rugby competition.

I actually believe more than many others posting here that RA and Twiggy realise the benefits of closer collaboration more than anyone and that they really understand that is not only necessary but critical for achievement of mutual goals.

I personally think a few people could be surprised what comes out but both have so much to lose if they don't work together and so much to gain if they do. To think that either RA or Twiggy camp don't realise this is fanciful imho.

I hope I don't discredited for these views as I am a big supporter of Australia Rugby and last time I checked WA big part of Australia and Australian Rugby.

 

[Brumby Runner]

My "concerns" with what I've read so far are these:-
1. General inertia and other logistic issues might push the timeframes out a bit. Which might be significant with regards to the timing of other deals that might be relevant
2. The comp must develop to a standard that makes it a viable alternative. Wedging NZ out (intentionally or by default) could be a great cost. I believe we simply must have players competing with them regularly to push us forward


Hopefully I'm wrong. The programme drawn up for this year seems a good start.

Point 2 is also the issue to me. Without NZ, and perhaps SA, it looks a bit like a voluntary sporting ban similar to the Apartheid boycott on SA, where the standard of play in the insular IPRC region would simply decline until it largely faded from the international scene. I hope something positive comes out of the IPRC, but to my mind it must involve NZ in some fashion.

 

[wamberal]

WA is not a "big part". If it was a "big part" it would not have been shown the door.


NSW and Qld are the big parts. The rest of Australia is composed of small and tiny parts.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Point 2 is also the issue to me. Without NZ, and perhaps SA, it looks a bit like a voluntary sporting ban similar to the Apartheid boycott on SA, where the standard of play in the insular IPRC region would simply decline until it largely faded from the international scene. I hope something positive comes out of the IPRC, but to my mind it must involve NZ in some fashion.

Involving NZ yes - but we probably need to almost plan to go alone and hopefully create something that they would be crazy to not want to join with what we are creating with Twiggy camp and/or RA etc. As NZRU have an air of feeling above RA (and probably justified) and Oz rugby to not want to really be open to such things unless a compelling value proposition offered. Twiggy's money might help create that situation which previously had buckley's of hoping oz and ARU could influence by themselves.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

WA is not a "big part". If it was a "big part" it would not have been shown the door.





NSW and Qld are the big parts. The rest of Australia is composed of small and tiny parts.

Yes but for the growth of the game and now with Twiggy money they are big parts of the game. Nothing like a billionaire in your court to make that happen. Financial realities old friend....as financial realities are why Twiggy has a lot of bargaining chips for WA rugby.....

As lets recheck that - how much money has been talked about Twiggy bringing in funding for IPRC etc etc...versus what NSW or QLD can contribute to much needed finances to fund investment and growth in rugby...

Financial realities my friend....so yes through Twiggy's financial backing WA rugby are a big part and that reality is more clearer than ever to RA at this point imho.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

My "concerns" with what I've read so far are these:-
1. General inertia and other logistic issues might push the timeframes out a bit. Which might be significant with regards to the timing of other deals that might be relevant
2. The comp must develop to a standard that makes it a viable alternative. Wedging NZ out (intentionally or by default) could be a great cost. I believe we simply must have players competing with them regularly to push us forward


Hopefully I'm wrong. The programme drawn up for this year seems a good start.

If I'm being completely honest. I'd rather NZ come with us on this and allow SA to head north. But I'm not as certain now as I was post Super Rugby last season about SA making that jump en masse to the Pro 14 considering the crowds for the Kings and Cheetahs haven't been wowing anyone. And while SA are still in play I have a hard time seeing NZ releasing their bargaining chip in the form of SA Rugby. And it is their bargaining chip.

If NZ were to come with us and we were to open the gates to players competing in this competition while still being eligible for their national teams I think we'd see a better overall product from day one than otherwise. Not to say I think that an IPRC without them would be terrible. There's a number of things that could be done to ensure quality. Particularly if some of their early plans comes to fruition.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

If I'm being completely honest. I'd rather NZ come with us on this and allow SA to head north. But I'm not as certain now as I was post Super Rugby last season about SA making that jump en masse to the Pro 14 considering the crowds for the Kings and Cheetahs haven't been wowing anyone. And while SA are still in play I have a hard time seeing NZ releasing their bargaining chip in the form of SA Rugby. And it is their bargaining chip.



If NZ were to come with us and we were to open the gates to players competing in this competition while still being eligible for their national teams I think we'd see a better overall product from day one than otherwise. Not to say I think that an IPRC without them would be terrible. There's a number of things that could be done to ensure quality. Particularly if some of their early plans comes to fruition.

Actually you make a powerful point WCR as NZ would hate to be dictated to by Oz given we have the money and SA with their pull for broadcast deals provide some counter to that as I am sure not just quality of SA rugby that is want. Oh the joys of the politics of rugby....as the irony is it not that the politics of rugby as to why Australian rugby has really struggled to make inroads as a sport in this country over the last decade?

 

[Boof1050]

WA is not a "big part". If it was a "big part" it would not have been shown the door.





NSW and Qld are the big parts. The rest of Australia is composed of small and tiny parts.

And therein explains the dumbarse logic and thinking of the organisation. Wamberal time to get out of the glorious eighties. The reason the game has imploded is because people can't or won't think outside the square or more to the point east of ANZAC parade.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

One final point before I retire from this thread for a bit....I won't get engaged in criticising Twiggy or his ambitions or indeed if he has a few setbacks as one should expect with any grand plans like this....for the simple reason you don't kill or criticise too hard the golden goose who can lay the golden eggs.

So my suggestion for those who are serious supporters of Australian rugby is to perhaps be a little more supportive of Twiggy's involvement as I can't say it is everyday a sport like this which has been in major financial difficulties and struggled for growth has a rich billionaire willing invest hundreds of millions into rugby in our region and Oz specifically including at grass roots level should be criticised or ridiculed. To me that is just really dumb.

My suggestion is support the golden goose and be a little less antagonistic towards twiggy and co if you are a true supporter of oz rugby....don't join the typical oz tall poppy syndrome of wanting to celebrate those who have grand plans failing or having a few setbacks, as to be frank it really is a very unattractive Australian quality that we need to lose to have better ambition.