Will Super Rugby continue to expand?

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

sorry shouldn't have said 'next broadcast rights' it's a ways down the track. but the positive thing about having this discussion is that we are discussing it for a reason. the game is thankfully growing in Canada, the States and Japan.
The Canadian Rugby Championship and the America's Rugby Championship (between the top Canadian and American teams) has already improved the quality of domestic rugby. there is now a sort of feeder system happening from club up to CRC/ARC and then onto National Teams.
All three unions will get more funding from their govt's as a result of sevens and that is great.

desperately want to see the island nations accommodated though without fear of losing all their players to NZ and AU. But, they will never get the money in Super Rugby they will in France/UK....

 

[Blue]

The Kings have been guarenteed to play in the 2013 super 15 by the SA rugby board

I can't seem to find details of how they will gain entry though.

 

[TOCC]

Blue, agree 100%

Forget about expansion in the short term, the priority should be to consolidate and improve the overall package and competitiveness across the board.. I want to see 15 teams still in the running for the finals with only 2 weeks to run in the competition

 

[tigerland12]

I can't seem to find details of how they will gain entry though.

Well you're not alone there, the SA union doesn't even know yet!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

PS. I hope it does not get any bigger.

It's enough rugby as it is and neither SA not Australia have the depth for another team.

PI idea is a pipe dream. Sad but true.

Japan, US, CA and Argentina are too far.

Focus the efforts on improving the quality of the product. SANZAR should do more to make sure teams are more competitive. I don't know how, but lifting the standard of the bottom six or so teams is critical. It will make the whole thing better for all. Players, broadcasters, fans. Maybe its a draft system? More lenient rules re contracting if a team finishes in the last 3? Dunno but I think quality is that's what's way more important than expansion.

I wouldn't say that is a certainty. There's quite a large PI population in the West of Sydney that could get behind an Exiles like team. Should be at the very least investigated.

 

[Blue]

I wouldn't say that is a certainty. There's quite a large PI population in the West of Sydney that could get behind an Exiles like team. Should be at the very least investigated.

Will an investor risk money on a team made up of people from numerous other countries, away from their homes, in a competition where they are likely to struggle?

Can't see a business case, as much as I would adopt them as my local team and support them.

 

[TheNextBigThing]

Will an investor risk money on a team made up of people from numerous other countries, away from their homes, in a competition where they are likely to struggle?

Will they necessarily struggle? The biggest hurdle facing Islander teams in the past is the lack of regular competition/training. Playing through a long season together as a single unit rather than as part of a diaspora playing in Europe will only increase their competitiveness.

Furthermore I found the quality of the Pacific Nations cup surprisingly high. Japan, Samoa Tonga and Fiji could all thump the Rebels and they haven't been together and training half as long. Our perceptions of middle tier nations is clouded by their sporadic performances at world cups. If Pacific teams got the chance to face professional opposition regularly, their talent would shine through and they'd maintain competitiveness.

I'm not saying it's feasible, I agree that it's a pipe dream, but IMO there's no question that Japan, Tonga, Samoa, Fiji and probably the US would be competitive given a chance in Super rugby.

 

[Blue]

Will they necessarily struggle? The biggest hurdle facing Islander teams in the past is the lack of regular competition/training. Playing through a long season together as a single unit rather than as part of a diaspora playing in Europe will only increase their competitiveness.

Furthermore I found the quality of the Pacific Nations cup surprisingly high. Japan, Samoa Tonga and Fiji could all thump the Rebels and they haven't been together and training half as long. Our perceptions of middle tier nations is clouded by their sporadic performances at world cups. If Pacific teams got the chance to face professional opposition regularly, their talent would shine through and they'd maintain competitiveness.

I'm not saying it's feasible, I agree that it's a pipe dream, but IMO there's no question that Japan, Tonga, Samoa, Fiji and probably the US would be competitive given a chance in Super rugby.

I should have said they would struggle initially and yes, given time, they would do better. That's logical.

I didn't think the Pacific Cup was that flash. Very error prone, poor execution of the basics. Not sure if a lot of the players in the NH turned out for them? Maybe it was a question of them not spending a lot of time together. Sure some of them would beat the Rebels but it's irrelevant. They will be a mix initially made up of old journeymen, youngsters from NZ and the Islands, and some NRL players probably. The stars for the most part will be locked up in the NH comps and will be very relucant to move until they see the thing working.

It would take an investor with balls or someone with deep pockets and a a lot of passion for PI rugby to pull it off.

 

[TheNextBigThing]

It would take an investor with balls or someone with deep pockets and a a lot of passion for PI rugby to pull it off.

Totally agree, but I think they'd be paid back with quality performances. Playing and training full time, 20 weeks in a row is something that these teams have never had the chance to do. The competition's structure would yield benefits.

I'm not saying it's probable or even possible, just that they're competitiveness would not be an issue.

 

[redsfanatic]

With the other countries being so far away, not only is it hard on the players but it is too expensive for all the flights. Don't include North America either, it is a southern hemisphere competition, and I for one want it to stay that way. That rules out Japan too, but it doesn't matter because Japan have their own competition that seems richer than Super Rugby. Lots of players going over there...

 

[redsfanatic]

People seem to be forgetting that Japan will NEVER join Super Rugby because they got their own competition that seems to have a lot more money involved. But maybe the Southern Hemisphere could have a few competitions, and have a competition similar to the Heineken Cup. The best placed teams of each competition could compete. Then there could be a Super Rugby-like competition in the Pacific Islands (excluding Japan) and a South America competition or whatever. Just a thought.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

People seem to be forgetting that Japan will NEVER join Super Rugby because they got their own competition that seems to have a lot more money involved. But maybe the Southern Hemisphere could have a few competitions, and have a competition similar to the Heineken Cup. The best placed teams of each competition could compete. Then there could be a Super Rugby-like competition in the Pacific Islands (excluding Japan) and a South America competition or whatever. Just a thought.

I'd actually prefer to see Japan develop their own competition structures seperate of Super Rugby and I don't think they would enter Super Rugby at any time. I know USARugby are keen to establish at least one team on the West Coast of the United States. Argentina needs to be included in same form or another. Ideally, they'd form their own conference in time but for now I'd like to see positions within each and every Super Rugby squad for at least 3-5 Argentine player's. That would introduce anywhere between 45 -75 Argentine players over time. Not only would this build the depth of the Argentine squad for the 4Ns but wil also add further depth to the competition.

 

[TOCC]

People seem to be forgetting that Japan will NEVER join Super Rugby because they got their own competition that seems to have a lot more money involved. But maybe the Southern Hemisphere could have a few competitions, and have a competition similar to the Heineken Cup. The best placed teams of each competition could compete. Then there could be a Super Rugby-like competition in the Pacific Islands (excluding Japan) and a South America competition or whatever. Just a thought.

It's about more then just money, it's a cultural difference in Japan, specifically in relation to professional sports and funding.
Companies In Japan are required to sped a % of there revenue on civic sports/events/culture etc, hence why most major companies own rugby union/softball teams..

It used to be the same with football, but the J-League succeeded this, to much controversy as well.

 

[PaarlBok]

The Kings team that lost 20-26 last week against a weaken Tin Ears side.

MATCH SUMMARYTEAMS Eastern Province Kings vs Emerging Cheetahs
VENUE Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, PE
DATE 08 July 2011 19:00
COMPETITION Absa Currie Cup Compulsory friendlies
FINAL SCORE 20 - 26
TRIES 1 - 2
HALFTIME SCORE 12 - 6
CONDITIONS Cool and chilly with a light breeze
CROWD 5000
MATCH OFFICIALSReferee Lesego Legoete
Assistant Referee/Reserve Referee Christian (Christie) du Preez
Assistant Referee Fumanikile Yamile
SCORING SUMMARYEastern Province Kings
Penalty Louis Strydom 5
Try Mzwandile Stick 1
Emerging Cheetahs
Conversion Riaan Smit 2
Penalty Riaan Smit 3
Penalty Robbie van Schalkwyk 1
Try Rayno Benjamin 1
Try Riaan Smit 1

LINE-UP
Eastern Province Kings
1 Jaco Engels
2 Hannes Franklin
3 Clint Newland
4 Barend Pieterse
5 Ross Kennedy
6 Jacques Potgieter
7 Devin Oosthuizen
8 Luke Watson (Captain)
9 Noel Oelschig
10 Louis Strydom
11 Joe Breytenbach
12 Wayne Stevens
13 Siyanda Grey
14 Norman Nelson
15 Mzwandile Stick
Emerging Cheetahs
1 Marcel Van Der Merwe
2 Michael van Vuuren
3 Trevor Nyakane
4 Francois (FS) Uys
5 Izak van der Westhuizen
6 Pieter Myburgh
7 Pieter Labuschagne
8 Johannes Gerhardus Prinsloo
9 Tewis de Bruyn (Captain)
10 Riaan Smit
11 Cameron Jacobs
12 Johan Goosen
13 Philip Snyman
14 Nico Scheepers
15 Philip Burger

RESERVESEastern Province Kings
16 Frank Herne
17 Riaan Vermeulen
18 Wayne van Heerden
19 Jacques Engelbrecht
20 Daniel Cornelius Faasen
21 Shane Gates
22 Jaco Bekker
Emerging Cheetahs
16 Schalk Willem van der Merwe
17 Hercu Liebenberg
18 John-Charles Astle
19 Willie Britz
20 Petrus Erasmus van Zyl
21 Robbie van Schalkwyk
22 Rayno Benjamin

 

[Swarley]

I think the Kings could be pretty competitive. Their current line-up isn't all that bad, and if they could secure a few Lions (van der Merwe, la Grange, Jantjies, Kockett, van Heerden, Maku etc.) and a few off-contract players from other provinces they could do pretty well. That's assuming that the Lions fold, of course.

 

[PaarlBok]

I think the Kings could be pretty competitive. Their current line-up isn't all that bad, and if they could secure a few Lions (van der Merwe, la Grange, Jantjies, Kockett, van Heerden, Maku etc.) and a few off-contract players from other provinces they could do pretty well. That's assuming that the Lions fold, of course.

Lions wont fold. They'll be stronger then ever under John Mitchell. Kockette wont play CC, he is gone to France.

 

[AngrySeahorse]

I'd actually prefer to see Japan develop their own competition structures seperate of Super Rugby and I don't think they would enter Super Rugby at any time. I know USARugby are keen to establish at least one team on the West Coast of the United States. Argentina needs to be included in same form or another. Ideally, they'd form their own conference in time but for now I'd like to see positions within each and every Super Rugby squad for at least 3-5 Argentine player's. That would introduce anywhere between 45 -75 Argentine players over time. Not only would this build the depth of the Argentine squad for the 4Ns but wil also add further depth to the competition.

I forget entirely about Japans comp, good point.

 

[liquor box]

As for the Kings, maybe someone can confirm but I though the Kingz will automatically replace the lowest ranking SA team in 2013?

.

Could get very interesting if the Bulls or Stormers have a massive injury crisis. Super Rugby would be a joke without these two teams, it would be like replacing the Reds/Tahs or Crusaders/Blues in the other conferences