Super Rugby Rnd 6: Waratahs v Reds

[Adam84]

Tizzano was again excellent.
.

Tizzano is an energiser bunny but he made some pretty bad defensive reads, no more so then the lead up to Tate’s try, I understand the scrum twisted but that was still Tizzanos channel to defend and he completely shot past it. I’ve watched him make a few of these mistakes this season and and have lead directly to tries.

 

[Braveheart81]

Tizzano is an energiser bunny but he made some pretty bad defensive reads, no more so then the lead up to Tate’s try, I understand the scrum twisted but that was still Tizzanos channel to defend and he completely shot past it. I’ve watched him make a few of these mistakes this season and and have lead directly to tries.

Agreed. That was a very soft try too.

I agree with you in general too that his defensive reads this season have let him down on a few occasions. He definitely doesn't read the game as well as some.

 

[Adam84]

Agreed. That was a very soft try too.

I agree with you in general too that his defensive reads this season have let him down on a few occasions. He definitely doesn't read the game as well as some.

He is indicative of the wider Tahs problem, plenty of talent and enthusiasm just missing the composure and experience

 

[Sully]

Again, we saw some very poor refereeing at scrum time, where the Reds were given a handy from the ref despite not moving forward before the wheel. The spidercam angle showed this beautifully at one point because it was right in front of the Reds' posts, and therefore on the 5m line: Tupou not able to budge his side, and the Reds LHP walking around.

Penalty Reds.

Walk around? Is that code for handing the tighthead side of your scrum it's arse?

 

[eastman]

He is indicative of the wider Tahs problem, plenty of talent and enthusiasm just missing the composure and experience

Definitely has enthusiasm and physicality but as BH mentioned he doesn't have the rounded skillset of Hooper or McReight.

 

[Purce]

Agreed. That was a very soft try too.

I agree with you in general too that his defensive reads this season have let him down on a few occasions. He definitely doesn't read the game as well as some.

I think people are being very harsh on Tizzano for that try. With the scrum in the position it was Harris was effectively taken out of play, tizzano has to work harder because he is coming a longer distance now and Tate could easily burn him on the outside. There is no other halfback in the world who can step like Tate can, 90 degree change of direction in a instant. I do not think there is a flanker going around who could have made that tackle. Like wise I don't think there is another half back doing around who could have scored that try in that way.

The only thing he could have done differently is track a bit slower but Tate took off like he was going for that space outside him so he had to go hard.

Unfortunate for Tizzano... however I really do not think you can lay any blame on him for that. It was just a class try. Very very smart from Tate.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Despite the scoreline I thought the Tahs weren't as bad as some people are saying. Perese was good and really stood up to Paisami in defense, probably more than any other oz centre, and he was their toughest ball runner as well. I think as he gets comfortable again in rugby he will be great. Probably the best game I have seen Foketi play. Maddocks had some very nice touches but still not quite where he should be, Harrison was pretty good as well.

I thought Harris played well and think they should persist with him so he can get comfortable at that level. He looks to be a real physical specimen, a couple of great runs and some solid defense. The 2 guys who came on at lock, Williams and Douglas, should be starting the rest of the year. Even though they are very green they looked much better than the other journeymen who have been starting. I was quite impressed with them. Look like solid lumps of lads too. Tizzano again was very good, a couple of great turnovers. Shame about the whole Penny debacle now, I could see some great attacking play/structure at yikes with that team. They just seem to lack some experience and confidence to keep it up.

I wont say much about the Reds however I will say that it wasn't a very impressive performance. Rocks and diamonds type team they are. A lot of very poor mistakes with brilliance scattered in there. Although they are top of the ladder I think the Brumbies are probably the best team at the moment.

One player I will point out is Scott-Young. He really is an unsung hero. The amount of work he gets through is quite amazing, he just never stops. Bounces back to his feet straight away and he is a very strong defender. If he could add a stronger ball carrying ability and good post contact meters to his game I think he would be a great test player. He is a very good leader as well, marshals the boys well.

Purce, I think you might have unintentionally hit on the real difference between ASY (Angus Scott-Young) and Harris. ASY (Angus Scott-Young) does indeed bounce back to his feet and has a huge and effective workload. Harris pulls off a big play and then takes his own good time to regain his feet and just wanders back to the Tahs side of play, mostly not getting involved again for a number of plays. Has a bad habit of standing around with his hands on his head rather than looking to get his hands dirty with more work. ASY (Angus Scott-Young) is a very valuable Super Rugby player, Harris has a lot to learn at this level.

 

[wamberal]

Purce, I think you might have unintentionally hit on the real difference between ASY (Angus Scott-Young) and Harris. ASY (Angus Scott-Young) does indeed bounce back to his feet and has a huge and effective workload. Harris pulls off a big play and then takes his own good time to regain his feet and just wanders back to the Tahs side of play, mostly not getting involved again for a number of plays. Has a bad habit of standing around with his hands on his head rather than looking to get his hands dirty with more work. ASY (Angus Scott-Young) is a very valuable Super Rugby player, Harris has a lot to learn at this level.

I read somewhere that one of Eddie Jones' key player metrics is the speed with which they get up after a collision.

 

[Adam84]

I read somewhere that one of Eddie Jones' key player metrics is the speed with which they get up after a collision.

It’s straight from the NRL playbook and a key metric for all NRL teams.

 

[formerflanker]

It’s (speed in getting off the ground) straight from the NRL playbook and a key metric for all NRL teams.

With the obvious exception of the tacklers charged with lying on top of the ball carrier to allow defence lines to be set.

 

[Pfitzy]

ASY (Angus Scott-Young) does indeed bounce back to his feet and has a huge and effective workload. Harris pulls off a big play and then takes his own good time to regain his feet and just wanders back to the Tahs side of play, mostly not getting involved again for a number of plays. Has a bad habit of standing around with his hands on his head rather than looking to get his hands dirty with more work.

Sorry are we talking about Harris or Valetini?

 

[Th0mo]

Splitting the hooker and LHP doesn’t mean your angling in, as a THP the two shoulders you’re engaging against are the LHP and hooker. Shearing the LHP off the scrum actually has more to do with head position and dropping the shoulder to dislodge the LHP.

Where people get confused, and officials struggle to officiate is that the LHP shearing off or losing his bind with the hooker now means the THP is only pushing against the hooker. Naturally he will angle in, but the penalty offence Is actually the LHP losing his bind. There’s a domino effect occurring here.

yeah that’s fine but he started angled before the set and went from there. None of what you mentioned re dropped binds or shearing off happened. Spider cam is great for showing angles.

https://ibb.co/CnXPgKv

https://ibb.co/qdHJC57

 

[Dan54]

There no doubt if you watch Tupou , you really don't even need those overhead shots, he tends to straighten up as lesser props come on in second half I think.

 

[Adam84]

yeah that’s fine but he started angled before the set and went from there. None of what you mentioned re dropped binds or shearing off happened. Spider cam is great for showing angles.

https://ibb.co/CnXPgKv

https://ibb.co/qdHJC57

And what angle is Robertson pushing in those images?

What I said was props will drop their shoulders and use their heads to disrupt the opposition prop. In the second image you’ve kindly posted you can see Robertson has dropped his shoulder, a LHP does this so he can push up on the THP chest and force the THP to drive up rather then forward.

Conversely in the same scenario a THP will also try and use their outside shoulder to force the LHP head down so they can’t see when the ball is been fed.

Spidercam is great, but there’s a reason the scrum s are called the dark arts.

 

[Drew]

TMO should have a word in refs ear. Like the touchie does with off sides and unsighted knock ons

 

[James GC]

yeah that’s fine but he started angled before the set and went from there. None of what you mentioned re dropped binds or shearing off happened. Spider cam is great for showing angles.

https://ibb.co/CnXPgKv

https://ibb.co/qdHJC57

That is a natural angle, if the front row was to pack any straighter where do you think the locks would need to put their heads LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) would have his head up TT arse? Hows the angle of HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes), can't be helped they're not fucking lego.

 

[dru]

And what angle is Robertson pushing in those images?

IMO opinion, what we are seeing is an evolution in the game of Loose Heads that oppose Tupou. And at this point, he is holding things together.

Back to the quote - there is little relevance or accuracy in any of these claims and counterclaims that look at Tupou without looking to the opposing loose head.

Tupou is not only scrumming fine, he is easily our best and on a world stage that other international props are watching.

 

[Pfitzy]

And what angle is Robertson pushing in those images?

HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) judging by the shock of red hair.

Firstly: it is natural for BOTH props in BOTH teams to look like they're on an angle - this is because hookers have wider hips these days in a third-prop shape, and if everyone is a square block from shoulders to hips, sticking a second rower's head between the hips will always kick the arse out.

On that particular shot supplied above: the failure point is the bind of the two Tahs props, with the pressure points circled.

1) HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) is binding around in a way that puts his shoulder too far behind Porecki. Now his body is at an angle and he can't develop "big chest" and prevent Tupou from driving in on Porecki's shoulder. In a way he's binding around too tight. It also means, at this angle, if he somehow gets a better hit in than Tupou, all he's going to do is end up angling in, and putting pressure in and down on Porecki's shoulder.

2) This causes a problem for Faulkner's bind, which is fucking nowhere when it should be on Porecki's left hip, meaning he's effectively unbound. So as soon as HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes)'s vector pushes sideways into the scrum, the Reds hooker is going to make Porecki have a bad day.

I would also add the blindside's bind is a fucking travesty (red arrow). What the fuck even IS that? A neck rub?

 

[Pfitzy]

Further: when you're setting a scrum, the loosehead's bind is the first one you should initiate, and it should therefore be the best bind - directly across the hooker's shoulder blades, grip the right breast of the jersey, then pop your right shoulder out.

I know the modern wisdom is to let the THP lead slightly, and that is fine, but in trying to get too narrow, and deny Tupou a target, HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) has compromised the ensuing structure of the scrum.

Forwards coach should be shot. All the forwards coaches they've ever had, actually, now that I look more closely at the second row binding.

 

[Adam84]

Ahh my apologies to HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes)

Interesting points Pfitzy, and i think looking at the broader scrum there's some other interesting factors about how both packs have bound. Both Reds have a wide stance and are bound on the the outside thigh of the respective prop to hold the props backs and stabilise them before the engage, allowing Tupou and Zander to set their feet slightly further back/set slightly lower. Sinclair & Tizzano are just leaning against the props, which means those props are holding back all the weight themselves and requires them bringing their feet further forward/set higher.

Also comparing the stance of Uru and Harris, Harris looks as though he is just standing there with both feet below his hips and not in a position to push on the engagement. Whereas Uru is set lower, shoulders up the locks ass and feet spread to really drive through on the engagement.