Rugby News from unexpected places

[Strewthcobber]

It's basically what Japan did leading into the 2019 world cup, and they were awesome there. I remember very few Japanese test players were playing for the Sunwolves in 2018/19 - they were mostly in this extended 'Wolfpack' squad that trained and played together over that period.

I reckon this underestimates the value of JL1, where those businesses had invested millions over many years in building a critical mass of full time players. Depending on your timeframe, well in excess of that $250m (in Yen) had been put into the Japanese rugby ecosystem

MLR has some resources, but it's nowehere near JL1. The USA don't have that mass of fully pro players to build on

 

[Braveheart81]

It's basically what Japan did leading into the 2019 world cup, and they were awesome there. I remember very few Japanese test players were playing for the Sunwolves in 2018/19 - they were mostly in this extended 'Wolfpack' squad that trained and played together over that period.

Japan had a lot of players with a lot of experience both for Japan, in the JL1 and in Super Rugby in that squad.

Shota Horie, Keita Inagaki, Luke Thompson, Michael Leitch, Amanaki Mafi, Hendrik Tui, Fumiaki Tanaka, Yu Tamura, Kotaro Matsushima are all pretty competent international players. It was hardly a squad that was just thrown together to compete at the RWC.

I don't think you could do remotely the same with the USA because they don't have the players currently that have anywhere near the level of experience in decent competitions that Japan did.

 

[Crashy]

I'm not sure what to make of this. The big nations over the last century have put a lot in to grow the global game - its nearly bankrupted AUS a few times.
And now RA just waltz into the US with promises of $250 million. Jeez that'll do me..

 

[Strewthcobber]

I'm not sure what to make of this. The big nations over the last century have put a lot in to grow the global game - its nearly bankrupted AUS a few times.
And now RA just waltz into the US with promises of $250 million. Jeez that'll do me..

It's not just WR (World Rugby) handing over a blank cheque.

This is really an investment of $50m a year, to make sure 2031 & 33 pay off.

Reading the article, a lot (some?) of the money appears to be going to incentivise other teams - including Australia - to play games in USA, as well as marketing etc around that.

 

[Tex]

It's a ridiculous idea. Total pigs at the trough situation. If WR (World Rugby) and its rich unions were aware of the lateral risk posed by a strong NRL expansion into the Pacific they'd spend their money where development is truly warranted.

Pacific nations, Georgia, Uruguay, Argentina etc etc. Take care of your grassroots before trying to scrape some offcuts left behind the behemoth American professional sports.

 

[Omar Comin']

I reckon this underestimates the value of JL1, where those businesses had invested millions over many years in building a critical mass of full time players. Depending on your timeframe, well in excess of that $250m (in Yen) had been put into the Japanese rugby ecosystem

MLR has some resources, but it's nowehere near JL1. The USA don't have that mass of fully pro players to build on

Yeah it's not like for like. Japan benefits a lot from the higher level of player that becomes eligible for them through residency, because of their pro league. The MLR attracts 2nd tier players in comparison (though these can still be very useful players that help improve the player pool).

But the US has it's own advantages compared to Japan, even when only considering what could be done in the short period of time leading up to 2031 - and without needing to invest hugely into the domestic ecosystem. It would be interesting to know how many there are, but I'd be confident there are a lot more professional (or strong under 20's) players in Australia/NZ/France/England/South Africa etc that are US eligible, than there are that are Japan eligible.

My thinking is imagine World Rugby/USA Rugby had a ~US$10 million budget per year to run a full time US Eagles eligible squad from 2026-2031, with a tier 1 level coaching staff. How good do you think that team could be by 2031? (noting they might still have some star players they could pick from European club rugby etc).

 

[Braveheart81]

Take care of your grassroots before trying to scrape some offcuts left behind the behemoth American professional sports.

How does World Rugby generate money except for ensuring that the events it puts on (Rugby World Cups) generate substantial profits?

 

[Strewthcobber]

It's a ridiculous idea. Total pigs at the trough situation. If WR (World Rugby) (World Rugby) and its rich unions were aware of the lateral risk posed by a strong NRL expansion into the Pacific they'd spend their money where development is truly warranted.

Pacific nations, Georgia, Uruguay, Argentina etc etc. Take care of your grassroots before trying to scrape some offcuts left behind the behemoth American professional sports.

They are hoping to get $1B USD of ticket revenue out of WC2031.

WR (World Rugby) think this is an investment so that there will be $$$ for Pacific nations, Georgia, Uruguay, Argentina in the years that follow.

 

[Braveheart81]

But the US has it's own advantages compared to Japan, even when only considering what could be done in the short period of time leading up to 2031 - and without needing to invest hugely into the domestic ecosystem. It would be interesting to know how many there are, but I'd be confident there are a lot more professional (or strong under 20's) players in Australia/NZ/France/England/South Africa etc that are US eligible, than there are that are Japan eligible.

My thinking is imagine World Rugby/USA Rugby had a ~US$10 million budget per year to run a full time US Eagles eligible squad from 2026-2031, with a tier 1 level coaching staff. How good do you think that team could be by 2031? (noting they might still have some star players they could pick from European club rugby etc).

Players eligible by birth or through their parents/grandparents? While it would be more than Japan, I doubt it would be a high number. The USA hasn't exactly been a place that people have migrated away from in the last 80 years which provides the ancestry eligibility.

The USA team would clearly be better if they had a full time professional program but I think the starting problem is that the players aren't very good.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Similar to HK. There would be some eligible players floating around who may have been born there due to parents work but it wouldn't be enough to move the needle re performance of the National side.

If they had a mass influx of talent it's still going to be fringe guys from the big comps around the world. Do the Eagles improve? Probably by a try or 2 v the tier nations...

 

[HogansHeros]

Eagles to be the 5th "aussie" Super Rugby team?

 

[Strewthcobber]

World Rugby's goals for this $50m a year investment do not include making the Eagles a better team - at least directly. There's no indication there's any investment in USA men's elite level rugby

The investment, announced in mid-July on the eve of the USA Eagles men’s and women’s doubleheader in Washington, D.C., will be put toward community rugby building, fan engagement, women’s rugby development and delivering high-caliber matches to key rugby markets across the country.

“What we’re trying to do is make sure that matches like Ireland vs. New Zealand in Chicago, and all the content we bring, comes together in one coherent calendar,” Gilpin said.........social, digital building around the matches we’re bringing here

“We’re creating incentives in that pot of funding for them to come and play here,” noted Gilpin, adding that “New Zealand and Ireland want to be in the U.S. every year.”

 

[Red Runner]

It's not just WR (World Rugby) (World Rugby) handing over a blank cheque.

This is really an investment of $50m a year, to make sure 2031 & 33 pay off.

Reading the article, a lot (some?) of the money appears to be going to incentivise other teams - including Australia - to play games in USA, as well as marketing etc around that.

its the same model we commend the NRL and AFL for (and bemoan RA for not doing) when a new team is entered into the national comp. It completely makes sense to invest in the US in the lead in to such a big couple of events.

 

[Omar Comin']

Players eligible by birth or through their parents/grandparents? While it would be more than Japan, I doubt it would be a high number. The USA hasn't exactly been a place that people have migrated away from in the last 80 years which provides the ancestry eligibility.

The USA team would clearly be better if they had a full time professional program but I think the starting problem is that the players aren't very good.

Both, plus some players that already do or could qualify on residency in the next 2-3 years, plus obviously the cream of the domestic players. You don't need the depth of the top nations, just 30-40 guys capable of getting to a tier 1 standard with a few years of high level coaching and regular higher level games. Plus this approach guarantees greater levels of cohesion.

You could be right but I think the gap is not so much in the potential of the players, and it's more in the amount of exposure they have to top tier coaching and higher standard games. We saw their sevens team be one of the better teams in the world some years based on having a good program and identifying the right players for it. No reason they couldn't replicate that in 15's.