Tapuai to Melbourne?

[en_force_er]

1908 for Melbourne & 1906 for WA just goes to show how poor the states have been in developing the game, no idea whythe ARU would think giving them teams would result in this changing.

I think that's a silly thing to say, obviously their are many factors as to why each game is popular in each state.

Geographical isolation by Olden day standards for one, they just evolved on different tangents. WA and SA took up football because they traded with Victoria.

Hell for decades and decades Greater NSW/Qld could have basically been a different country to Vic/SA/WA

 

[James Buchanan]

130 years of Rugby history compared to 2 years . I think the QLD/Tah's fan can say what they want..

Weary Dunlop disagrees with you.

 

[James Buchanan]

No.. I think QLD and NSW fans would just appreciate the expansion teams follow a path of development rather then signing players that fans have come to really support.

Yes, it is clearly obvious that the Melbourne team has not invested any time in any promising players. They have not developed any players such as Hugh Pyle or Caderyn Neville. They instead should be happy to have any discards the 'traditional' rugby states deem unworthy of their time anymore.

 

[daz]

I think the Rebels (and the Force) should be applauded. If nothing else, they seem to have given QLD and NSW something to agree on.

Dismantle the border patrols and rejoice my friends; the cold war is over!

 

[Braveheart81]

I disagree with the notion that the Force and Rebels shouldn't be trying to sign already developed players from NSW and Qld.

It is a professional sport and players can play where they like. If they would prefer to make more money by taking an offer from a different team then good on them. They have a limited period to make money out of their sporting talent and I don't begrudge them seeking to make the most of it.

If a player who isn't at the top of the pecking order wants to get paid less than they are worth on the market then they can stay where they are. Should someone like Higginbotham stay at the Reds for a mediocre pay packet when they have signed Genia for somewhere close to $600k or should he go somewhere that has the cash available to pay him somewhere around what he is worth?

There seems to be this notion that players and teams should try to hold onto amateur ideals in a professional world. That just isn't possible.

 

[Gnostic]

Weary Dunlop disagrees with you.

So would Link.

 

[Gnostic]

I disagree with the notion that the Force and Rebels shouldn't be trying to sign already developed players from NSW and Qld.

It is a professional sport and players can play where they like. If they would prefer to make more money by taking an offer from a different team then good on them. They have a limited period to make money out of their sporting talent and I don't begrudge them seeking to make the most of it.

If a player who isn't at the top of the pecking order wants to get paid less than they are worth on the market then they can stay where they are. Should someone like Higginbotham stay at the Reds for a mediocre pay packet when they have signed Genia for somewhere close to $600k or should he go somewhere that has the cash available to pay him somewhere around what he is worth?

There seems to be this notion that players and teams should try to hold onto amateur ideals in a professional world. That just isn't possible.

I would also add that some payees have moved to get the opportunity to play a decent brand of Rugby. Eg. Beale. He is an infinitely better player than I ever saw at the Tahs.

 

[Bernie_Larkham]

A "Melbourne" backline of CL, Taps, Johannsen and Digby aint bad. Can we have those guys we developed back please?

 

[Braveheart81]

I would also add that some payees have moved to get the opportunity to play a decent brand of Rugby. Eg. Beale. He is an infinitely better player than I ever saw at the Tahs.

I think that's a hard thing to say. Last season he was brilliant from fullback and his counter-attacking was absolutely superb.

I don't think he has played a game for the Rebels at fullback this season that has been as good as his best for the Tahs last season.

He has been great since he moved to 10, but if you're comparing that to him being 10 at the Tahs, you're comparing a 23 year old with 20-odd Wallabies caps to the 2008 season when he was 19 (and still helped the Tahs make the final).

 

[Gnostic]

At the Tahs we saw plenty of chip kicks and more incontestable kicks. Much as we still see from them. At 15 or 10 I never saw Beale play as well as he has at the Rebels. He is now a team member instead of an individual in a group that is the Tahs charged with making something happen when the rest don't or can't do anything of the sort. IMO this is a judgement of the Tahs inability to develop another player rather than of Beale.

 

[Richard D. James]

creative 10/12 only work when those players offer a different skill set for mine. Both JOC (James O'Connor) & Kurts are creative players who try things, i don't actually believe JOC (James O'Connor) has the natural game to just back up and i think thats what Kurtley or JOC (James O'Connor) individually need around them. its not a knock on either player, i just believe there both alpha players and having them next to one another will result in them ending up hindering each others progress. I also feel Kurtley has shown great leadership in his time alone at 10 without JOC (James O'Connor) and that needs to be encouraged.

i also think that both players have less than great defence and if there together the channel will fast become a problem.

ad Quade to the mix at international level and i actually believe they hamper each others natural games.

Bit late replying here, and the topic of the thread seems to have shifted, but you are probably right.

However, aren't we curious to see how they'd go?

I mean, for as long as I've known who JOC (James O'Connor) was its been generally accepted he's a 12 and Beale, despite his ability to be a world class 15, was always a 10.

Now we have both at the same Super Rugby club and the chance to seem them play in these positions we've wanted them in for so long.

Sure, you could shift JOC (James O'Connor) to 15 and have him come into the line when required, but there's something to be said for putting the right numbers on these guys jerseys and categorically stating "Kurtley is our 10, JOC (James O'Connor) is our 12".

Like I said, your are probably right, but as a Rugby fan I think it's worth a shot isn't it?

Give it crack! see how they go, what's the worst that could happen....

 

[daz]

I think that's a hard thing to say. Last season he was brilliant from fullback and his counter-attacking was absolutely superb.

I don't think he has played a game for the Rebels at fullback this season that has been as good as his best for the Tahs last season.

He has been great since he moved to 10, but if you're comparing that to him being 10 at the Tahs, you're comparing a 23 year old with 20-odd Wallabies caps to the 2008 season when he was 19 (and still helped the Tahs make the final).

I'd actually forget his position and simply look at his impact as a comparison. How many times with the Tahs was he a real game-changer?

With the Rebels, this seems to be almost week in and week out.

In some ways, I see the Rebels have pretty much given Beale an open chequebook (in more ways than one) to play his game. The Rebels want him to control the game and set the pattern. At the Tahs, he was one of several such individuals and he only had his little grid square to play in.

That is not a criticism of the Tahs, just an observation that the Rebels seem to suit Beale's talents and style, where-as at the Tahs he may have been a bit more reserved due to game plan, etc.

 

[Ash]

130 years of Rugby history compared to 2 years . I think the QLD/Tah's fan can say what they want..

No, they can't. Apart from the obvious incorrect apples to oranges comparison, I think that there should be no more of this obvious fishing/baiting/trolling, please.

 

[waratahjesus]

I'd actually forget his position and simply look at his impact as a comparison. How many times with the Tahs was he a real game-changer?

With the Rebels, this seems to be almost week in and week out.

In some ways, I see the Rebels have pretty much given Beale an open chequebook (in more ways than one) to play his game. The Rebels want him to control the game and set the pattern. At the Tahs, he was one of several such individuals and he only had his little grid square to play in.

That is not a criticism of the Tahs, just an observation that the Rebels seem to suit Beale's talents and style, where-as at the Tahs he may have been a bit more reserved due to game plan, etc.

Week in week out at the rebels is 3 1/2 games out of 11, he is playing really well, but he hasn't dominated for the season by any lengths.

It's a bit rich to say his development is due to the rebels, it's due to the effort out into him by the Ella's, his school, the Tahs, the wallabies and now the rebels, bit harsh to conclude he would be the same player had he not walked the same path.

 

[daz]

It's a bit rich to say his development is due to the rebels, it's due to the effort out into him by the Ella's, his school, the Tahs, the wallabies and now the rebels, bit harsh to conclude he would be the same player had he not walked the same path.

I never said that, nor would I ever say that. I think the Kurtley Beale who walked into the Rebels was pretty much a fully developed player and obviously that was due to the factors you list above.

My point was that Beale seems to have a bit more creative freedom to play the game his way compared to when he was at the Tahs, and that the Rebels style/game plan suits him.

 

[waratahjesus]

I never said that, nor would I ever say that. I think the Kurtley Beale who walked into the Rebels was pretty much a fully developed player and obviously that was due to the factors you list above.

My point was that Beale seems to have a bit more creative freedom to play the game his way compared to when he was at the Tahs, and that the Rebels style/game plan suits him.

Sorry Daz, wasn't replying solely to what you said but wasn't clear on that.

 

[emuarse]

A couple of years ago in August I was in Adelaide and saw a game of footy alongside the road which was well attended.
From a distance I though it was one of the other codes, and was quite surprised as we drove past to see it was Rugby.
It would be good for the game to support South Australia more, and get it out of the evil clutches of the AFL.
OMG, what have I said , there'll be a thousand Victorians knocking my door down. It's a good thing that emu's can run fast.

 

[TOCC]

Yes, it is clearly obvious that the Melbourne team has not invested any time in any promising players. They have not developed any players such as Hugh Pyle or Caderyn Neville. They instead should be happy to have any discards the 'traditional' rugby states deem unworthy of their time anymore.

Your misconstruing what I'm saying... You have obviously highlighted two players there that Melbourne should be proud of bringing through the ranks..

But you completely glossed over the point about how i mentioned the swapping and changing of players who fans have come to love and support is a negative aspect of the game.. You may argue against the fact now, but its inevitable that a player developed by the Rebels will be poached by another state at some point, maybe then you will agree.

I disagree with the notion that the Force and Rebels shouldn't be trying to sign already developed players from NSW and Qld.

It is a professional sport and players can play where they like. If they would prefer to make more money by taking an offer from a different team then good on them. They have a limited period to make money out of their sporting talent and I don't begrudge them seeking to make the most of it.

If a player who isn't at the top of the pecking order wants to get paid less than they are worth on the market then they can stay where they are. Should someone like Higginbotham stay at the Reds for a mediocre pay packet when they have signed Genia for somewhere close to $600k or should he go somewhere that has the cash available to pay him somewhere around what he is worth?

There seems to be this notion that players and teams should try to hold onto amateur ideals in a professional world. That just isn't possible.

Thats not what i was saying, and if you read through the threads you will find i am completely supportive of players chasing there market value. However like i mentioned above, it is still a negative aspect of the game watching players change clubs.

In addition to that, for the expansion clubs like the Force and Rebels, i really don't believe that signing big name players is the long term solution. Gits and Mitchell signing with the Force and subsequently leaving damaged the club more then it improved it. During the time, the massive salaries these players earned could have been directed to young and developing players who might have been more likely to display some further loyalty.


Players changing teams is obviously a necessity of professional rugby and and a byproduct of a free market... In saying that, it doesn't mean that i have to like it or think its a good thing for the fans...

 

[Braveheart81]

I think one thing that hinders the new franchises operating in non-traditional rugby markets is they can't just look at building a good team over a period of time.

They also need to have some bankable stars to draw fans in. That is the biggest reason they chase stars like JOC (James O'Connor) and KB (Kurtley Beale) and whilst they'd probably be better spending that money on buying 3 decent forwards and 3 decent backs, I certainly understand why they buy the big stars.

 

[kronic]

A couple of years ago in August I was in Adelaide and saw a game of footy alongside the road which was well attended.
From a distance I though it was one of the other codes, and was quite surprised as we drove past to see it was Rugby.
It would be good for the game to support South Australia more, and get it out of the evil clutches of the AFL.
OMG, what have I said , there'll be a thousand Victorians knocking my door down. It's a good thing that emu's can run fast.

The game was supported in Adelaide, via the 7s circuit. We know where that's gone.

The Rebels do some work in terms of academy setup, an SA player was in one of the Rising teams last year.

Hopefully the Rebels/Force play this rumored June game there, or a trial game next year.