ISA Rugby 2013

[Tom Ando]

Oakhill 21 Trinity 14, Oakhill Seconds also won lots to not many

Does these results reflect how ISA goes against CAS schools? I don't know a lot about the CAS comp but I thought that at least within the last 2 years, Trinity have been quite a good team. How well does ISA historically go against other representative teams?

 

[Rugby Tragic]

Does these results reflect how ISA goes against CAS schools? I don't know a lot about the CAS comp but I thought that at least within the last 2 years, Trinity have been quite a good team. How well does ISA historically go against other representative teams?[/quote


TA, ISA Rep sides have held there own over the past couple of years. The individual ISA schools have also prevailed over both CAS and GPS schools, However they are still viewed as the poor cousins.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

IIRC last year Oakhill were the "undefeated" premiers of the CAS competition. In a variety of games they played and beat all the CAS teams at one stage or other.

Oakhill were a very good team last year and were heavy with Y12 boys who have now left. By all accounts Oaks are rebuilding this year and will not be as strong as the 2012 vintage.

Augies did not play all the CAS teams last year, but again those that they did were rather well beaten.

Of the city teams Pats was probably next off the rank in 2012. They were beaten by Trinity, so would be competitive without being world beaters in CAS.
Stannies and Kinross would be around the same level.

On their day Andrews, Gregs and Pius would win a few games in CAS, but not dominate, based on form over the last few years.

Despite promising much, the ISA rep team has had inconsistent results against CAS rep team in the Opens.

Bottom line, in a gross generalisation, the top ISA schools are at the same level as the top CAS teams. The 2nd tier ISA would be reasonably competitive in CAS. with the weaker schools struggling somewhat.

 

[beeman]

1st XV - Waverley 32 def StPats 27

 

[Tom Ando]

Cheers RT and HJ! I would love to play for ISA this and just get a bit more experience at a high level considering I haven't played Rep footy for about 3 years now. I couldn't go back to Illawarra rugby even if you payed me $1000. But my hope, coming towards playing First XV, when I was in Year 9 and 10 was to make it in schoolboys rugby to a fairly high standard (probably unrealistic in most people's views, but still a goal). But as I'm sure you are all aware that teams, even if they do perform well in one particular year, people's perception of teams has a massive impact on selection past ISA or any other team into NSW schoolboys and are sometimes already pre picked before players get a chance to show what they've got. Unfortunately coming from a Div 2 school, the odds are strongly against me and other players in my situation. Just something you've got to accept! Ben Black from Chev is the only notable selection for NSW that I know of from my school and from ISA that I can recall, and even then I remember people kicking up a stink that he was a nobody or that their were players from GPS or whatnot who should have been picked over him. #toughtimes

 

[Loucentre]

As stated Waverley got up in a tight affair with St Pats 32-27. Considering St Pats were down 24-5 at half time, it was a strong 2nd half effort which had St Pats in range at 29-27 with just under 10 minutes remaining. Discipline at the breakdown was an issue for St Pats, particularly towards the end of the match they were there own worst enemy. The winger for St Pats Maroun who i'm led to believe was on debut crossed for a double, finishing well. The backs for St Pats were much different to the ones that took on Trinity including different 9,12,13 and 14.

St Pats line out issues from the Trinity game have been worked on with obvious improvements, although there are some issues with timing of jumping/lifting. The tighthead prop for St Pats Pj Aglizzo was very strong taking a lot of powerful hit ups and making plenty of tackles. Tony Abraham no.8 was strong again particularly with ball in hand.

St Pats now have a small break before taking on Knox on Saturday which will likely see some more changes for trial purposes. It will be a tough game for St Pats given the talk surrounding Knox this year/preseason though it is a great opportunity for St Pats to ruffle a few feathers and push fro another win against a CAS school

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

As stated Waverley got up in a tight affair with St Pats 32-27. Considering St Pats were down 24-5 at half time, it was a strong 2nd half effort which had St Pats in range at 29-27 with just under 10 minutes remaining. Discipline at the breakdown was an issue for St Pats, particularly towards the end of the match they were there own worst enemy. The winger for St Pats Maroun who i'm led to believe was on debut crossed for a double, finishing well. The backs for St Pats were much different to the ones that took on Trinity including different 9,12,13 and 14.

St Pats line out issues from the Trinity game have been worked on with obvious improvements, although there are some issues with timing of jumping/lifting. The tighthead prop for St Pats Pj Aglizzo was very strong taking a lot of powerful hit ups and making plenty of tackles. Tony Abraham no.8 was strong again particularly with ball in hand.

St Pats now have a small break before taking on Knox on Saturday which will likely see some more changes for trial purposes. It will be a tough game for St Pats given the talk surrounding Knox this year/preseason though it is a great opportunity for St Pats to ruffle a few feathers and push fro another win against a CAS school

They will be gnashing their teeth at having gone down to Waverley like that... Sounds like it was agood match.

 

[Peabody]

Terrible to hear - but, what actually occurred?

The relationship between these two colleges I thought, was particularly healthy, no?

Bogan behaviour is alive and well in NZ. Was just reading that spectators at the annual grudge match between Christ's College and Christchurch Boys' High are breath tested by police prior to entry - with a zero-tolerence policy.

 

[Tom Ando]

Bogan behaviour is alive and well in NZ. Was just reading that spectators at the annual grudge match between Christ's College and Christchurch Boys' High are breath tested by police prior to entry - with a zero-tolerence policy.

That suprises me. I walked past Christ College heaps when I was in Christchurch at the end of last year. Looked very prestigious and "upper class" is probably the best word to describe it. Anyway.

On a different note and out of curiosity, can someone tell me the last time Chevalier won Div 2? I had already started Chev when it happened but my first year in Year 7, we were in Div 1 still so i'm thinking it was '09 or '10? In 2010 we were in the GF against Redlands if I can remember but I don't know if we won. Can someone tell me??! Thanks

 

[Tom Ando]

Don't worry got the answer

 

[RugbyTears]

....yeah it is a shame the quality of the Chev teams have really dropped too overall. And I wish i still went to 4th's but we couldn't even get a 2nd's this year because the attitude was that if they didn't get into 1st's then they wouldn't play at all. .......

Hi Tom, just came across something you posted ages ago. Want to ask you, assuming if Chev 2nds is in a comp where they play Andrews 2nds, Redfield 2nds, St Pats 4ths, Stannies 4ths, Oakhill 4ths, Pius 3rds, Central Grammar 2nds ... or something similar in strength, would guys be interested in playing 2nd XV at Chev ? I am trying to determine if people are not interested to play because there is no serious comp games or it is a simple matter of it is not cool to play 2nds ? Interested to hear you comment.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The boys from GPS in the Spaghetti Cup (7ths XV to 10ths and beyond) seem to be able to motivate themselves for "equal" level competition, despite not being in the 1sts.

Some one else has posted on here that ISA basketball is all over the place with teams in pools based on relative merit of that team and not based solely on the strength of the School itself. That seems to be a sensible compromise and would IMHO encourage participation. It would seem that ISA rugby could apply some of what seems to be working in other sports.

I'd also be interested in hearing what one of the current players thinks. Over to you Tom.

 

[Tom Ando]

Hi Tom, just came across something you posted ages ago. Want to ask you, assuming if Chev 2nds is in a comp where they play Andrews 2nds, Redfield 2nds, St Pats 4ths, Stannies 4ths, Oakhill 4ths, Pius 3rds, Central Grammar 2nds . or something similar in strength, would guys be interested in playing 2nd XV at Chev ? I am trying to determine if people are not interested to play because there is no serious comp games or it is a simple matter of it is not cool to play 2nds ? Interested to hear you comment.

Hey RT. Well when I was going into Year 11, many of my team mates in the under 16's really wanted to play firsts. We did have a seconds team that year but they didnt have a comp to play in, and often played every third week, some weeks having to give players to the other team to make up numbers. So I think from seeing that, players didnt even want to try out for Firsts, because they knew they weren't going to make the team and didnt want to be part of a seconds team. So I think personally it was a bit of both. A lot of the "cooler" kids who played 16's were the ones who didnt try out basically because it was First XV or nothing at all. Probably a bit of pride too. No one wanted to play seconds in front of the girls and siblings older mates that came down to watch, and see that what they were playing in was a bit of a farce. Plus they did have the option of playing club rugby for Bowral which last two years have been the most successful in many years. We used to get belted 70-0 in Under 12's and the under 17's last year made the Grand final, so people were attracted by that too.

The boys from GPS in the Spaghetti Cup (7ths XV to 10ths and beyond) seem to be able to motivate themselves for "equal" level competition, despite not being in the 1sts.

Some one else has posted on here that ISA basketball is all over the place with teams in pools based on relative merit of that team and not based solely on the strength of the School itself. That seems to be a sensible compromise and would IMHO encourage participation. It would seem that ISA rugby could apply some of what seems to be working in other sports.

I'd also be interested in hearing what one of the current players thinks. Over to you Tom.

Yeah in regards to ordering individual teams into their respective divisions based on performance and strength has a lot of merit too. See Chev Firsts basketball is in Div 1 but the inters are Div 2 I think. and for new players from Year 7, they just go on the previous age groups performance the year before. I think it definitely works. I mean, the Chev 16's Rugby team last year who are now in Firsts with me had been undefeated since Year 7, with only 14 points scored against them EVER! Thats incredible haha. So just because my age group above that age group was poor, and Firsts plus two other age groups were competitive and not smashing other teams because we dropped a Division, isnt really fair on the age group that IS belting teams week after week. and mind you, shows that year after year, they are way above the rest of the comp. The team had Conor Davidson who is a NSW player and Gold Squad member, Lachlan Hennessy and Patrick Byrne who are Gold Squad members. and Illawarra rep players. I don't think many teams had a chance.

 

[sarcophilus]

School boy football is about participation

teams need squads of around 22 splitting a comp based on an individual teams merits will increase the number of students that do not get an opportunity to participate as fully as possible and is likely to diminish interest. It will reduce the number of available teams/Grades as every two grades would have a third standing as reserves. If an entire age group is a squad all players are part of the team. (all 45 players play in the example given) , the game they play in as well as the one they stand by for becomes relevant. The ranking by this order may also develop depth as players work across grades and coaches are encouraged tor do the same for continuity.
It may mean abandoning the novelty of an entire school visit, but ther is the posability of several age groups visiting at once

 

[Tom Ando]

It may mean abandoning the novelty of an entire school visit, but ther is the posability of several age groups visiting at once

Do you think the cost of sending separate teams to potentially all different venues, deters ISA from this idea?

 

[sarcophilus]

Last Years ISA 16 were particularly strong, their performance may have deserved a few more than the less than a handful NSW School jumpers.

(The deciding match for the ISA 1st Division 16s Championship, I hear was won with the rugby equivalent of an underarm bowl... calling for an uncontested scum on the last set play)

the ISA 16s first division may have been tightened by the inclusion of Chev, if anything at least that team would have had an opportunity to mark itself outside of the second division comp.
Did they have any external trials that may indicate how they are running outside the 2nd Div. pond

 

[sarcophilus]

Do you think the cost of sending separate teams to potentially all different venues, deters ISA from this idea?

It is likely to come into it but a full age squad would be close to one coach load so the costs shouldn't increase more than marginal amounts, once individual teams are split the costs would increase significantly.

 

[Tom Ando]

Last Years ISA 16 were particularly strong, their performance may have deserved a few more than the less than a handful NSW School jumpers.

(The deciding match for the ISA 1st Division 16s Championship, I hear was won with the rugby equivalent of an underarm bowl. calling for an uncontested scum on the last set play)

the ISA 16s first division may have been tightened by the inclusion of Chev, if anything at least that team would have had an opportunity to mark itself outside of the second division comp.
Did they have any external trials that may indicate how they are running outside the 2nd Div. pond

Didn't think you were allowed to do that at rep level as its expected that your front row has experience and in fact if you call non contested, you have to give the ref a really bloody good reason.

And the 16's team last year had/has 3 gold squad players and one NSW players and plus two other Illawarra rep players. One of the gold squad players and one of the Illawarra rep players went on two play for NSW country as well.

 

[sarcophilus]

this was a school match not reps, unfortunately coaches in U16 comps are very willing to have their charges manipulate the scrum rules. I have seen a couple of juniors teams not get competition as a chain of opposition coaches call non contested very early in the game when it is become clear they are likely to loose a lot on their feed. ( am aware that this is not just an u16 rule) but teams are coached to walk back or not push to also draw penalties.

the match described the call coincided with the last scrum of the game, called by the team with the feed in deep defence. If genuine fine ..... but easy to perceive as "an underarm" to those that are old enough.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I have heard of some teams (and coaches) playing a front row of loose forwards who can just hold up a scrum. They are trained to go backwards more than 1.5 metres to draw a penalty regardless of which team is feeding the scrum.

In Under 19 rules, having effectively 6 loose forwards is a significant advantage. The legitimate front row fatties are relecated to the C's and D's.

Little wonder that our teams struggle at front row time in open grade footy.