Ewen McKenzie Resignation

[AngrySeahorse]

Just one large post to give all my thoughts.

I gave Georgina the benefit of the doubt when this started but I hope she pulls her head in after this. Really disappointed in a journo I actually really liked.

Feel for Link. Really do. Hopefully for the Reds he may go back there. With all the choice signings wouldn't it be great for Reds fans to have link back? Not to mention I think the team would also love it.

Eddie Jones would be best advised staying in Japan. He doesn't need the stress coming back here surely - though I'd love to see him back just for the entertainment.

Jake White would not be too bad. I think we need an Aussie but then again I also think we need a hard arse.

Larkham - not enough experience.

Nick Mallet - not bad an option at all.

Chieka - I think he should stay at the Tahs & continue to work the campaign of winning over more fans to Rugby in Sydney. Given the competitive sporting market there I think they need to ride the momentum. And won't his appointment just fuel media spec elsewhere about the "tahs-clique" theory - media will continue to have a field day (just maybe not in Sydney this time).

Now, the rest of this message is brought to you by pure rage & Red Bull.

As for the whole "we are Australians get behind the wallabies or fuck off you're not an Australian", well fuck you right back. Don't bring into question peoples national identity or their national loyalty over a damn sporting team. As passionate as I am about my sport no one is going to die. Given I spent around 6 and a half years serving my country in the ADF I suppose my priorities are different. I guess I should look at anyone who hasn't done national service as someone who doesn't love this country as much as I do. But that would be a ridiculous thing for me to do - however it would not nearly be as ridiculous as someone saying "you're an Australian & you're not going to follow our men's Rugby team until their behaviour changes....you're not Australian". Lol, er no .

I've been fortunate to have been raised by a member of the "greatest generation" & one from the "silent generation" - they taught me about "mateship" which has been bandied around a lot by a few Wallabies players of late. But what I also learnt from my old school senpai's would be the other quintessential Australian concepts of "Fair-Go" & standing up for the right thing - this has been fundamentally lost in the Wallabies squad over time & has now come to a head. Loyalty to each other without a collective belief in the right principles is faulty. This is the last time I'm posting about my thoughts on the Wallabies behaviour as I'd just be going in circles.

The Wallabies are our baby!? WTF?, no. More like a red-headed step child that needs the crap smacked out of it (I have red heads in my family I can say it ).

Basically what it boils down to for me is that this Australian will start following the Wallabies again when they start acting like Australians again. In the mean time everyone else on here sign up for national service for STRAYA or piss off to ISIS ya c****.

(And I hope some of my sarcasm in this post isnt lost over the internet).

 

[Tom Ando]

can someone please direct me to where i can see an account of that incident?
i was wondering what it was about.
thanks in advance

It happened when he had a run in with Messam before a scrum when Phipps was confronted.

 

[swingpass]

short term, how about some completely left field, not even a rugby man but a proven coach/man manager and leave the technical side to his assistants.

a craig bellamy or wayne bennett or ric charlesworth or ?

someone to kick heads and put in place a program that says your either in or your out, your choice

longer term certainly cheika then probably larkham

 

[Oldschool]

Lots of worked up people on this thread and understandably. Ewen's pulling of the pin a week before the northern tour sucks and smacks of fuck you, see how you blokes handle that. I know there's no good time to resign but one week out, for fucks sake, he seriously wants to drop someone in a pile of shit.

 

[swingpass]

Just one large post to give all my thoughts.

But what I also learnt from my old school senpai's would be the other quintessential Australian concepts of "Fair-Go" & standing up for the right thing - this has been fundamentally lost in the Wallabies squad over time & has now come to a head. Loyalty to each other without a collective belief in the right principles is faulty.

this absolutely

misplaced loyalty to KB (Kurtley Beale) is the wrong thing

 

[AngrySeahorse]

Lots of worked up people on this thread and understandably. Ewen's pulling of the pin a week before the northern tour sucks and smacks of fuck you, see how you blokes handle that. I know there's no good time to resign but one week out, for fucks sake, he seriously wants to drop someone in a pile of shit.

I can't speak for anyone else here but whoever the interim coach ends up being I certainly won't be making one single negative criticism of them given the circumstances they'll be thrown into.

 

[Ulrich]

Lots of worked up people on this thread and understandably. Ewen's pulling of the pin a week before the northern tour sucks and smacks of fuck you, see how you blokes handle that. I know there's no good time to resign but one week out, for fucks sake, he seriously wants to drop someone in a pile of shit.

I think Ewen didn't want to continue riding this boat up north where the British media in particular would have a field day.

 

[Oldschool]

I can't speak for anyone else here but whoever the interim coach ends up being I certainly won't be making one single negative criticism of them given the circumstances they'll be thrown into.

I hope he's got a sharp axe and uses it liberally to pull this player group into line, or do what the ABs did in the 80s or 90s when the senior ABs did a rebel tour of SA. None played again. I think the media called the new AB team the baby blacks as they were all new faces.

 

[Ulrich]

I hope he's got a sharp axe and uses it liberally to pull this player group into line, or do what the ABs did in the 80s or 90s when the senior ABs did a rebel tour of SA. None played again. I think the media called the new AB team the baby blacks as they were all new faces.

Indeed the media did. In a way, that rebel tour probably helped propel New Zealand in the end. The impact it has had on the All Blacks cannot really be quantified. The All Blacks' teams during that era could have looked completely different were it not for that tour.

 

[Biffo]

It happened when he had a run in with Messam before a scrum when Phipps was confronted.

thanks, but ....
i saw the incident and Messam and Phipps and Hooper having a chat
but i can't read lips

i would like to find a transcript

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Nick Mallet is a bloody good suggestion. He would have good experience in dealing with a shit rotten office setup.

Do not reward Jake White with the job. Sing his praises all you want but don't forget he walked on the Brumbies in a waterworks of crocodile tears half way through his contract. Now he has left the Sharks after only a year. Alarm bells should be ringing over the bloke. Tell him no and Australian rugby has no interest in feeding his over sized ego.

I think the systems are at fault and not the cattle. Link was given a mandate to do this and that but how was he resourced to fulfil the mandate he was given?

I also don't think Pulver needs to be employing media spin doctors. What he needs is professional sports administration advice. Just to get the ship on the right course. The ARU should be badly offering Ross Oakley a short term contract to put the ARU on track to run a professional sporting code in a manner that has worked for other codes in the Australian sporting market. This is the man that took the VFL and turned it into the AFL.

Somebody badly needs to take Rugby away from the niche market mentality.

I agree with most of this - we don't just need a hard-arse coach - none of these blokes are lacking in mongrel - the question is what support are they getting from the board...

Mallet is not, and never will be the Answer...
Rewarding White would be an insult to the Wallaby Jumper (and creating a flight-risk)...
I personally would not Eddie Jones back into a Wallaby Test as a spectator...
So who does that leave... Chieka is not ready. Scott Johnson, with a whole New Deal from the ARU in terms of support and discipline?

 

[Tom Ando]

Just one large post to give all my thoughts.

I gave Georgina the benefit of the doubt when this started but I hope she pulls her head in after this. Really disappointed in a journo I actually really liked.

Feel for Link. Really do. Hopefully for the Reds he may go back there. With all the choice signings wouldn't it be great for Reds fans to have link back? Not to mention I think the team would also love it....


Now, the rest of this message is brought to you by pure rage & Red Bull.

As for the whole "we are Australians get behind the wallabies or fuck off you're not an Australian", well fuck you right back. Don't bring into question peoples national identity or their national loyalty over a damn sporting team. As passionate as I am about my sport no one is going to die. Given I spent around 6 and a half years serving my country in the ADF I suppose my priorities are different. I guess I should look at anyone who hasn't done national service as someone who doesn't love this country as much as I do. But that would be a ridiculous thing for me to do - however it would not nearly be as ridiculous as someone saying "you're an Australian & you're not going to follow our men's Rugby team until their behaviour changes..you're not Australian". Lol, er no .

I've been fortunate to have been raised by a member of the "greatest generation" & one from the "silent generation" - they taught me about "mateship" which has been bandied around a lot by a few Wallabies players of late. But what I also learnt from my old school senpai's would be the other quintessential Australian concepts of "Fair-Go" & standing up for the right thing - this has been fundamentally lost in the Wallabies squad over time & has now come to a head. Loyalty to each other without a collective belief in the right principles is faulty. This is the last time I'm posting about my thoughts on the Wallabies behaviour as I'd just be going in circles.

The Wallabies are our baby!? WTF?, no. More like a red-headed step child that needs the crap smacked out of it (I have red heads in my family I can say it ).

Basically what it boils down to for me is that this Australian will start following the Wallabies again when they start acting like Australians again. In the mean time everyone else on here sign up for national service for STRAYA or piss off to ISIS ya c****.

(And I hope some of my sarcasm in this post isnt lost over the internet).

Just Thank you. Thank you. Between the lot you've described, my knucklehead old classmates from school who love to hate on Union, and f-ing kiwis here and actually in their own country commenting on shit on facebook, this gives me strength. Also, to make this post gospel imo, the fact that Ewen's integrity, (which is his staple moral stance) is questioned (in terms of unprofessional relationships with staff members etc etc) is just so wrong. People have to put themselves in Ewen's shoes here.

People, I believe, have quite rightly suggested that this stinks of a big middle finger to the ARU and a portion of the playing group. Obviously I don't want to buy into speculation and rumour spreading, but it just wouldn't surprise me that there is a huge player divide, mostly from the Tahs clique in the squad. Their behaviour is pretty disappointing, but for even some of the most respected players in the Wallabies from the team and the public, their behaviour doesn't surprise me. Its just really sad because I want to believe the country I support is full of good blokes who adhere to a team first approach. Its obvious that a lot don't.

Rant over.

 

[D-Box]

Rick Charlsworth - he manages the shit and the assistant coaches look after the rugby

 

[Biffo]

it is about 15 years since i first proposed Nick Mallett for Wallabies or Waratahs coach - almost from the days the Boks fired him.
i can only hope.

my only objection to Mallett is that, as a pom, he wouldn't be able to motivate the Wallabies for the pool game against England in RWC 2015.

 

[Scotty]

It seems from the presser and various interviews afterwards that the team was working to a plan (such as using the short side and changing the point of the attack) that Link devised. How badly could he have lost the players if they still were working to his plans? Seems strange.

However on the flip side I did notice how fast Hooper exited from the press conference when Link was about to start his statement. It was the fastest he moved all night!

 

[Sandpit Fan]

This equates being an international rugby coach with someone who runs an organization that sells paper towels or cars. I'm not sure professional coaches occupy the same space, nor that the players see the coaches the same as a 9-5 supervisor who sends out memos. They're not entirely different, but there's something more with coaching that gets into psychology and a force of personality that the players buy into -- it seems to be more alchemy than MBA.

I'm not saying Link's missing a training session was right or wrong. I'm sure that kind of thing has happened before in an international set-up and no one made a big deal of it because it didn't become a thing. I'm just not sure there's a 1-1 equivalency between a coach and a CEO. I've heard before that McKenzie read a lot of business books and tried to bring that kind of approach to his coaching philosophy; maybe some of the players weren't cool with tao of business school, and that fed the unrest. At the same time, you'd hope there would be a Mowen or a Moore there to get some of the players pull their heads in and not create turbulence where it isn't necessary. Not sure why Horwill or Higginbotham couldn't do that, despite not being captains. If some players did try to exert a little off-field leadership and they weren't backed up by the coaching staff because x-factor, then that's a different question, and the problems were bound to boil over.

You said "I'm sure that kind of thing has happened before in an international set-up and no one made a big deal of it because it didn't become a thing."

It is never a big deal. Tell me, would we be having this conversation about all of this somehow being McKenzie's fault if he had missed the training session because he got food poisoning and was seeing a doctor?

The idea that it had anything to do with the loss is laughable.

 

[Biffo]

a rather comical assertion crops up a lot in this thread --
-- that Australian rugby would be better off if the game shut down in NSW

in that event, from where would the rest of Australia get its players?

 

[Scotty]

Also linked to note that the game plan that Link devised and the players executed for 60 minutes had us dominating the game and in a position to win. The lack of execution and poor decision making in the last 20 by the players and in particular the senior players ended up losing it.

 

[hammertimethere]

There is no man that can come in and do what Link was doing. A person like that does not exist as an option right now.
Our priorities have to be
- a bloke who will come with enough gravitas and record of success that the players will respect him and be willing to work with him to win Tests.
- a bloke who has a record of being able to make significant change to results through up-skilling players and optimizing preparation, in a short period of time
- a bloke who has a proven record of excellent man-management
- a bloke who is not daunted by the challenge of seeking a result at the RWC in a short period of time.

Being independent or a new person is not required.

When you look at it through that lens and leave the emotion and hyperbole aside, the two choices are obviously White or Cheika.

Cheika may reportedly not want the job just yet and fair enough, but in that case he may not satisfy criteria 4 at this time.

White is the guy, for the next 11 months at least. Cheika may get a look in in 2016/17, if he's ready.

Simple

 

[AngrySeahorse]

Also linked to note that the game plan that Link devised and the players executed for 60 minutes had us dominating the game and in a position to win. The lack of execution and poor decision making in the last 20 by the players and in particular the senior players ended up losing it.

So would you say they just went away from the game plan & started playing what was in front of them. Robbie strikes again.

Also, just saw Campo's tweet saying bringing back White would be a joke. I know I'm making a cardinal sin by actually listening to Campo & taking him seriously but surely Jake White isnt a total joke option.