Wallabies v England, Sat 11th June, 8.00pm, Suncorp Brisbane

[The torpedo]

I thought it was very poor form for someone of Grey's calibre. Regardless of whether a quick throw was possible it was deliberate cynical play and that and along with Robshaw's neck roll which didn't get picked up by the refs should be dealt with. It's like the English in the 2011 WC where the sideline coaches were giving Jonny Wilkinson different balls for kicking.

And Robshaw should get the same penalty that we have seen in Super Rugby for neck rolls - at least 2 matches off. Amazing that with the crackdown on neck rolls that someone would do it.

Robshaw's neck roll? Where was that? I didn't notice it

 

[Red Rose]

From a POMs point of view I agree with my people here in that the Wallabies will prevail in the next 2 tests, but they should at least be hard fought. Eddie Jones has done a great job with England so far, but there are massive improvements still required. England at least have reacquired a decent set piece, but the creative attacking play leaves a lot to be desired. In the 6Ns matches we saw a much improved performance by the pack, but poor play by the backs. Burrell at 12 was a stop gap and that failed being subbed off after 30 minutes. Ford and Farrell resumed their 6Ns partnership, but all of this is temporary until Manu Tuilagi returns from injury.

The Wallabies looked pretty decent for a first match in 6 months. 4 excellent tries and dangerous in possession. I would say the green and gold future looks pretty good. They just came against an England greatly improved from the RWC and battle hardened. Melbourne I am sure will be different. The way your guys found and made use of space was impressive. Now it is just a question of your pack upping their game a little bit, which they will no doubt do.

Should be good practice for your rugby championship and 2 good tests to look forward to. Enjoy and may the best side win!

 

[tragic]

Robshaw's neck roll? Where was that? I didn't notice it

1st half - the ruck where England actually got the penalty and 3 points for Pococks pilfer whilst supposedly having a second go at the ball - minus his head.

 

[Froggy]

A couple of comments.

Firstly, the hand-wringing about Foley's kicking. It has been pretty damn good all year, he actually DOES land a lot from the sidelelines, and he's kicked well for the Wallabies in the past. Yes, he had an off day (we were well beaten even if he'd landed every kick), but I've seen Merhtens, Carter, all of them have an off day. I know there are plenty that won't accept what I say, but it's the reality.

Penalties. Yes, Poite was diffcult at the breakdown, but these guys are professionals, they MUST adjust to that, and they didn't. The penalties alone cost us the match, you can forget everything else.

On a positive, I beleive that's as good as England can play, while we have a mile of improvment available.

 

[tragic]

A couple comments (we were well beaten even if he'd landed every kick).

No we weren't. If he'd made his kicks then we would have been in the lead after our last penalty and would have been in a position to close the game out, rather than push for another try and give one up instead.
Not that I am criticising Foley - he had a great game.
But your statement is wrong.

 

[The torpedo]

No we weren't. If he'd made his kicks then we would have been in the lead after our last penalty and would have been in a position to close the game out, rather than push for another try and give one up instead.
Not that I am criticising Foley - he had a great game.
But your statement is wrong.

Exactly - we would have won 34-32

 

[AnneG]

Yep agree, but went on too long.


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I was so happy to see the welcome to country. I hope this is a permanent thing.
I don't think a welcome to country can go on too long given how long we've been privileged to share these lands.

 

[formerflanker]

I was so happy to see the welcome to country. I hope this is a permanent thing.
I don't think a welcome to country can go on too long given how long we've been privileged to share these lands.

It was a overt political statement by the ARU that should not have a place in sport. It's drawn out and repetitive content was not a good advertisement for welcome ceremonies. I hope we never see it again.
There are plenty of other ways for all Australians to recognise the role and contribution of indigenous people to our society, without making it the key focus point of a major international rugby match.

 

[smithandwesson]

We still have to win two games this series to get the Cook Cup as England are the holders. A draw doesn't change that.

Incorrect, a draw in Brisbane, then draw in Melbourne, then a win in Sydney would give us the cup.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

How is Cheika's game plan more vulnerable to a rush defence than any other team's? Apart from those that kick deep out of the pocket, of course.

Cheika's game plan is, basically, ball in hand never admit you can't run it from any position.
Either he has too much faith in that approach or we have players who can only play one way on any given day or a mixture of both.
But even if Im wrong as to why it happens the "coincidence" needs to be considered in case its not just a coincidence.

If the Poms want to have a whinge about it, this is below the entry level compared to their ball tampering in tests and RWC matches.

What Gray did was amateurish crap - I reckon part of his foot was outside the technical box anyway but there's no doubt he made contact with the ball outside the box.
Were we really that vulnerable to a quick throw? if so that's something to work on between Saturdays rather than having an assistant coach inject himself into the game.
No doubt they're running video of his tackle on Hill all over the home counties: http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...-over-grey-elbow/story-fnii0ksb-1226667111025.
What's this about ball tampering?

 

[galumay]

No we weren't. If he'd made his kicks then we would have been in the lead after our last penalty and would have been in a position to close the game out, rather than push for another try and give one up instead.

These sort of hypertheticals are pointless, we simply have no idea what would have happened if different things occoured! There are essentially an infinite number of different potential outcomes.

Had Foley converted the early tries, England might have scored 3 more tries, or 1 less, or 4 different penalties, or had a played binned, or, or...

Factually all you can say is Foley missed a number of kicks, what the impact of those misses were on the overall score is pure speculation.

 

[tragic]

These sort of hypertheticals are pointless, we simply have no idea what would have happened if different things occoured! There are essentially an infinite number of different potential outcomes.

Had Foley converted the early tries, England might have scored 3 more tries, or 1 less, or 4 different penalties, or had a played binned, or, or.

Factually all you can say is Foley missed a number of kicks, what the impact of those misses were on the overall score is pure speculation.

Seen that written ad infinitum on this forum
Mostly I agree with it.
But a conversion, whether it goes over or not, has no impact on the game whatsoever. It's not a sliding doors moment. The restart is the same regardless.
But if we do apply your logic then it must also be applied in the reverse - and the statement that we were well beaten even if he made every kick remains incorrect.

 

[Pfitzy]

Incorrect, a draw in Brisbane, then draw in Melbourne, then a win in Sydney would give us the cup.

Statistical possibility of 2 draws in a three match series during the modern era is?

 

[Gnostic]

What Gray did was amateurish crap - I reckon part of his foot was outside the technical box anyway but there's no doubt he made contact with the ball outside the box.

Were we really that vulnerable to a quick throw? if so that's something to work on between Saturdays rather than having an assistant coach inject himself into the game.

No doubt they're running video of his tackle on Hill all over the home counties: http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/rugby/lions-still-livid-over-grey-elbow/story-fnii0ksb-1226667111025.

What's this about ball tampering?

Come on IS, it is as common as grass on the field. What Grey did is nothing out of the ordinary. Hardly amateurish, it is apparently, I am told again and again the epitome of professionalism to get away with anything and everything that you possible can, blatant or not. If you don't like it just say so but leave off the hyperbole, it can't be sustained when the practice is as widespread and common as it is.

England has form for actual ball tampering, the last and best known example being coaches/assistants swapping game balls for Jonny Wilkinson to take his kicks at the RWC in NZ.

That is moor premeditated and orchestrated intervention designed to cheat.

If they want to play the footage of Grey V Hill so what? Just add it to Brian Moore's whinging all last week.

 

[JJJ]

I'm not a prop, but in every replay of a collapse on Sio's side I saw he had his feet a long way back and didn't attempt to chase them forward. Seemed to me that Cole had him on the run through fair means and foul.

 

[Gnostic]

It was a overt political statement by the ARU that should not have a place in sport. .

How is it a political statement?

How about we get annoyed by something truly dire and embarrassing, namely what idiot came up with Fee, Fi, Fo, Fum" etc. Bloody hell they should be sacked and invited never to attend another game. What utter shite.

Up there with playing two bars of a song before every lineout and the idiotic heartbeat thing before the scrums. FFS it isn't bloody basketball thankfully, lets keep the cheap American theatrics out of it.

 

[smithandwesson]

Statistical possibility of 2 draws in a three match series during the modern era is?

..irrelevant really. The discussion was whether the loss in Brisbane was any worse than a draw. Having won, Eng are now in the box seat for the next one. I think Owen Farrell will feature fairly highly in their game plan.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Which, let's not forget, were often on opposite sides of the field. I saw him arrive late to a couple but they were on opposite 5m lines due to our drift.

It was an issue when we didn't get too far over the gain line, but the plan was pretty obvious - attack either side of the English 13 channel, and run support players either side. When we got through the line Phipps was there every time. When we got cut down outside, because we were drifting too much, he struggled. And any halfback in the history of halfbacks would.

A few of his passes resulted in serious pressure, but its the weakness of Cheikaball - if you're not well on the front foot, you have to reset and go again.

But we made some breaks and fucking murdered them through lack of vision as well. Late in the game we made easy metres and people either didn't pass or tried too late.






Which, again, was game plan. Why kick the ball back to England? You'll just find yourself 50m back downfield on the end of an excellent box kick or raking punt.

Maybe once or twice early to hold the defence up, but its not a tactic I think any Australian rugby fan is in favour of.

Far better to work on our ruck discipline, not give up 80 metres on consecutive penalties, followed by 3 points.

The Wallabies attacked side to side early in the match and made huge metres, scoring the first two tries. In that period, Phipps was able to keep up despite the side to side attack. As the game wore on, he got slower it seems to me. Maybe something for Cheika to work on as part of the ongoing game plan.

No way am I advocating Foley should kick deep to the full back or a winger. The way to stop that rush defence is a short chip over the line to allow a good chance of a regather. For what I mean, look at how Cruden, Barrett, A Smith and D MacKenzie can invariably reclaim the ball from a short chip over the line and in Barratt's case, almost always go on to score.

 

[Brumby Runner]

No I tend to agree with Poite. Cole takes a shorter bind on Sio (from memory) which is what put Sio in all sorts of trouble. He didn't adjust so Cole was able to twist him every which way from TH.

I look forward to the illuminating GAGR analysis in good time.

 

[Brumby Runner]

For the most part Australia's kicking game was poor and we would lose territory every time we tried to kick, Folau put one out on the full and kicks from DHP and Foley went straight down the throat of England's outside back every time.

Not true. DHP found open space with at least a couple of his kicks. He is the best option for kicking out of our territory that we've had for some time.