Wallabies vs England, Sydney, 3rd Test, 25 June @ 8:00pm

[No4918]

I'd be telling quade if he signs a super contract this weekend he can have a shot at 10 next week.
And as I said before game 2 our back row balance was shite - I'd throw Gill and Leroy in the mix as well.
But I'll get accused of wearing red glasses again so I'll just shut up and watch us lose 3-0.

Get the red glasses off. Wonder you didn't mention the injustice to Horwill and Simmons you one-eyed Red fan.

 

[tragic]

Nah - none of the locks have really shown a point of difference. Don't really have an opinion there. Maybe colemans worth a shot at some point.

 

[No4918]

Slipper (vc)
TPN
Holmes
Arnold
Simmons
Hooper (c)
Gill
Houston
Phipps
Foley
Horne
Lilo
Kerevi
DHP
Folau (vc)

Moore
Smith
Kepu
Horwill
Fardy
Frisby
Kuridrani
Hodge

 

[RugbyReg]

Gill has played 8 at Super level and done it well. .

Has he? When? I genuinely can't remember it happening unless it was as a fill in late in the game.

We need some go forward. Pocock actually achieved this but it's lacking elsewhere.

Houston may just have to be risked. Shame he didn't play club footy yesterday.

We need metres close to the ruck and I haven't seen Holloway do that just yet so he's not the answer.

Long term hopefully Caleb Timu could be the man - he's been described as the closest thing to a Toutai we've had for a while.

Interestingly I reckon we could have done much better with 2 test rookies with Jono Lance at 12 and Ita Vaea at 8. Obviously both were unavailable and Ita will never be.

 

[cyclopath]

I'm not sure what's worse - the Wallabies performance or the hysteria that follows a loss......

Indeed. The widespread discarding of players without realistic alternatives at Test level, right now, is quite odd. All the players being pushed under the bus have been and generally are good players.
How the team is playing is the problem.
England have a similar team to the RWC yet are playing as a better team, but are playing a simpler game plan very well. Much of our issues are poor discipline, and poor option taking at times. Yes, better kickers would be great. Who are they? Another top level 10 or two would be great? Again, who is this that is in any form?
Coaching needs to be smarter and better directed at the opposition. We knew what England would bring, yet seemingly were unable to counter it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[wamberal]

And why could we not counteract it, Cyclopath? Mainly because we are totally deficient in certain basic skills.



How is it that a Test match fly-half cannot kick the ball out of hand? How?

 

[Highlander35]

What we need is everybody to piss off Boudejall.

Aussies pull in Mitchell, Gits and Cooper, Wales pull in Halfpenny, Georgia pull in Gorgodze, South Africa Habana and Argentina JMFL.

Be the best way to finish the French Season.

 

[KOB1987]

Wholesale panic driven changes not required.

Kuridrani has been absent this year, bench him. I think it's worth a shot playing Izzy at 13, DHP at 15 and Morahan on the wing. Maybe Horne defends at 13 only so we can have Izzy at the back for the high ball.

Only other changes:
Horwill or Simmons in for Carter, send him back to Quirindi.
Start Palu or McCalman, keep McMahon on the bench.

 

[Tip]

The series is lost.

I don't understand the advocating for the change back to dual-playmakers, especially Lili starting at 12. When Lili came on for Kerevi, we still had two sections of 10+ phases where we ran side to side like headless chooks.

Foley & Phipps were terrible for the second week running. Leali'ifano wasn't much better. Get To'omua in at 10 & Frisby at 9. Keep K². Morahan should start, he twice gassed defenders on the outside for half breaks in his two touches of the ball, we need that speed on the wing. Horne hasn't done anything for us in attack in 12 months.

We need an entire cleanout of our leadership group. Moore doesn't deserve his place in the team on form alone, and Hoopers decision making as captain when Moore's been subbed (take the 3's)has been embarrassing, and it goes beyond this series.

Slipper looked the goods, so I'd be appointed him as captain for this game (until Poey's back on injury. )

I'd be going for something like this. With a 6/2 split with Hooper playing wing if DHP/Morahan go down.
1.Slipper(c) 2.TPN 3.Holmes
4.Simmons 5.Arnold
6.Gill 7.Hooper 8.McCalman
9. Frisby, 10.To'omua
12.Kerevi 13.Kuridrani
11. DHP 14. Morahan 15. Folau

Sio, Moore, Kepu, Horwill, Fardy, Palu, Phipps, Foley

 

[TOCC]

Moore is the captain, but needs a rocket up his ass.. Drop him to let him know he has a certain standard to live up to and he failed to do so. He shouldn't be engaging in petty niggle crap.

Carter, long term critic, he shouldn't have been in the team to start with and played to the level I expected him to, promote Coleman instead.

Fardy, bad game but a good player, doesn't mean he is exempt from criticism though, his handling errors put the Wallabies under pressure and his last dropped ball lead to a England try.. Keep him for next week

Phipps, another who needs to be told that mediocrity isn't acceptable, yeah he was under pressure so it's not all his fault, but he also made crucial errors at key times, bench him.

Foley, I think he is the best 5/8 in Australia without a doubt, but a test 5/8 needs to be able to kick from hand, get him a kick in coach ASAP

Backline, swamped in attack by a rush defence, needed Foley to kick through a few times to keep the defence guessing but it never happened.. Keep the same backline for next week

Bench
Need more dynamic players on the bench, Wallabies have lost the last 10mins 2 weeks in a row

 

[cyclopath]

And why could we not counteract it, Cyclopath? Mainly because we are totally deficient in certain basic skills.



How is it that a Test match fly-half cannot kick the ball out of hand? How?

I understand your point and your need to say it a thousand times. As I said, name a viable current alternative to Foley? Anyone?
I was addressing the tactical flaws in our game. I've never argued that general kicking skills in Aus rugby are good enough. Clearly they aren't.

 

[Viking]

Indeed. The widespread discarding of players without realistic alternatives at Test level, right now, is quite odd. All the players being pushed under the bus have been and generally are good players.
How the team is playing is the problem.
England have a similar team to the RWC yet are playing as a better team, but are playing a simpler game plan very well. Much of our issues are poor discipline, and poor option taking at times. Yes, better kickers would be great. Who are they? Another top level 10 or two would be great? Again, who is this that is in any form?
Coaching needs to be smarter and better directed at the opposition. We knew what England would bring, yet seemingly were unable to counter it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

As other posters have already mentioned, it's not the game-plan that is the problem. It's execution of basic skills and basic tactic thats every TEST players should know.

Think test 1. The game-plan was right, we dominated the first 20mins. But gave away 9 penalities in kicking zone - you'd think players would be extra bloody careful when they have a kicker like Owen Farrell on the team. Basic stuff.

Test 2 was just a major mess. A flyhalf who did not execute one decent kick, who's kicks actually led to pressure put back on us instead of put on England. Poor passing and poor handling errors.

Yes we were a different team last year - but that's because we never tried kicking the ball.

I'm afraid execution is at least more then half the problem.

 

[Viking]

I understand your point and your need to say it a thousand times. As I said, name a viable current alternative to Foley? Anyone?
I was addressing the tactical flaws in our game. I've never argued that general kicking skills in Aus rugby are good enough. Clearly they aren't.

Lilo at 10 instead of Foley. or
Lilo at 12 to take pressure off Foley.
Morahan on wing instead of Horne to add another kicker.

How about a simple thing like having DHP slot into the pocket to take some pressure off Foley whilst kicking out of our half.

Nothing unrealistic about those options.

Now theirs more possibilities barring injuries:
Hunt at fullback or in the Centres
To'omua at 10 or 12

 

[I like to watch]

I understand your point and your need to say it a thousand times. As I said, name a viable current alternative to Foley? Anyone?
I was addressing the tactical flaws in our game. I've never argued that general kicking skills in Aus rugby are good enough. Clearly they aren't.

Yep, I totally agree.
It's easy to say Foley deserves dropping.
Much harder to name a viable replacement.
Shame To'omua is only just becoming available,as I see him as the only possible alternative atm.

Edit: And if Lilo is the answer,you're asking the wrong question

 

[Viking]

Yep, I totally agree.
It's easy to say Foley deserves dropping.
Much harder to name a viable replacement.
Shame To'omua is only just becoming available,as I see him as the only possible alternative atm.

Edit: And if LILO is the answer,you're asking the wrong question

We don't have to drop him, we just need alternative options. Gits took so much pressure off Foley's kicking in the RWC - not sure why we can't do the same now.

As good as Kerevi was, Foley NEEDS another playmaker and kicker inside him.

Lilo needs to step up and take some control off Foley whilst at 12. Or inject To'omua if fit.

 

[cyclopath]

As other posters have already mentioned, it's not the game-plan that is the problem. It's execution of basic skills and basic tactic thats every TEST players should know.

Think test 1. The game-plan was right, we dominated the first 20mins. But gave away 9 penalities in kicking zone - you'd think players would be extra bloody careful when they have a kicker like Owen Farrell on the team. Basic stuff.

Test 2 was just a major mess. A flyhalf who did not execute one decent kick, who's kicks actually led to pressure put back on us instead of put on England. Poor passing and poor handling errors.

Yes we were a different team last year - but that's because we never tried kicking the ball.

I'm afraid execution is at least more then half the problem.

Execution was very poor. So was the plan - how we tried to exit our half, how our attack lacked structure especially in their 22 at times. Playing McMahon and expecting him to play a Pocock role - why would anyone think that would work? The plan hasn't ultimately worked twice now, and has failed to adapt to England's rush defence among other things. No plan B when things get tight. The aggro and niggle was very poorly directed - there's an art to being aggressive without looking so damn overt, and I reckon a lot of that comes from Cheika - he likes his players to be aggressive. Needs to be modulated.
Coaching needs to address both, as do the players.
You've overlooked the main point of my quoted post, which was really about the rush by some to chuck a bunch of players out, and chuck a bunch of inexperienced players in and expect a miracle, rather than work out how to get this team functioning. You've railed against Foley (admittedly very poor game), Palu (didn't play) and Mumm in post game comments (he actually has done something in the past 2 bench efforts) but please name some viable alternatives to some of these players? These (the whole 23 or so) players have been good, and mostly are good. Obviously, some key players that fit Cheika's style of game are missing - Pocock, Douglas, Beale, a fit To'omua all year, Giteau, Tomane, etc... Coaching teams need to be able to address these issues and work around them, maybe by approaching the game differently.

 

[Viking]

Execution was very poor. So was the plan - how we tried to exit our half, how our attack lacked structure especially in their 22 at times. Playing McMahon and expecting him to play a Pocock role - why would anyone think that would work? The plan hasn't ultimately worked twice now, and has failed to adapt to England's rush defence among other things. No plan B when things get tight. The aggro and niggle was very poorly directed - there's an art to being aggressive without looking so damn overt, and I reckon a lot of that comes from Cheika - he likes his players to be aggressive. Needs to be modulated.
Coaching needs to address both, as do the players.
You've overlooked the main point of my quoted post, which was really about the rush by some to chuck a bunch of players out, and chuck a bunch of inexperienced players in and expect a miracle, rather than work out how to get this team functioning. You've railed against Foley (admittedly very poor game), Palu (didn't play) and Mumm in post game comments (he actually has done something in the past 2 bench efforts) but please name some viable alternatives to some of these players? These (the whole 23 or so) players have been good, and mostly are good. Obviously, some key players that fit Cheika's style of game are missing - Pocock, Douglas, Beale, a fit To'omua all year, Giteau, Tomane, etc. Coaching teams need to be able to address these issues and work around them, maybe by approaching the game differently.

Can't recall railing against Palu.

Refer to previous post. Pressure needs to be taken off Foley with Lilo at 12. Another kicker always inside him.

I agree with your main point to an extent. It's hard to say our tactics in game 1 were the wrong choice. We out-scored them, it was discipline that let us down. I'd say the game-plan was the right one we just failed to execute it properly. Run them wide was working.

Game 2, we had the wrong game-plan, clearly just tried to do the same plan and EJ (Eddie Jones) and England were ready for it. Plus it was rainy and wet so handling would always be an issue with a wider game. Clearly out smarted and out-played in game 2 - which is the most disappointing thing for me.

I could live with the loss of game 1. But the fact we failed to adapt at all for the next game was most disappointing.

Game 1 was all the players fault IMO. Game 2 both coaches and players.

I hate to be negative but I am really struggling to see our players capable of playing any other game-plan other then the wide cheika-ball style.

 

[Slim 293]

I predict a good two dozen pages of parochial shit fighting............

This is going to be a long week.

 

[Viking]

You know Reece Hodge would have also been useful at 12.

 

[Gnostic]

Has he? When? I genuinely can't remember it happening unless it was as a fill in late in the game.



We need some go forward. Pocock actually achieved this but it's lacking elsewhere.



Houston may just have to be risked. Shame he didn't play club footy yesterday.



We need metres close to the ruck and I haven't seen Holloway do that just yet so he's not the answer.



Long term hopefully Caleb Timu could be the man - he's been described as the closest thing to a Toutai we've had for a while.



Interestingly I reckon we could have done much better with 2 test rookies with Jono Lance at 12 and Ita Vaea at 8. Obviously both were unavailable and Ita will never be.

I forgot about Houston being back. Not having seen any of his NH games, just reading the press I am unsure how close he is.

However even that is just tinkering. I am really unsure of how Chieka can fix this. The base skills to play a more complete game plan simply do not exist in Australia with the current injuries taking out Beale and Harris and to a lesser extent To'omua.