New Zealand v Wallabies, Eden Park, Sat 22nd October

[Lindommer]

All those scrummies need a bit more polish and some experience at the next level, Gordon, Lucas and Powell especially. Let's hope they shine with higher grade duties and push for a gig in gold.

 

[Viking]

Yeah? We've just had Frisby play a couple of okay games in gold, we've had the young Stirzaker beg for a jersey last year (there's no reason he can't get back there next year sans injury), we gave a young Powell a crack in the squad earlier this year, and from the NRC we have Gordon and Lucas looking bloody good. I'd say 9 was our deepest position.

I'd say we're right, it's just about picking the right 1 or 2 to throw some development behind.

Do any of those guys have a great running game though? I swear sniping runs from Aussie 9's are a rarity these days - apart from a couple from Genia recently but still not the running threat he used to be.

 

[hammertimethere]

Gordon has gas..

We need all those boys at different franchises and starting

 

[amirite]

Do any of those guys have a great running game though? I swear sniping runs from Aussie 9's are a rarity these days - apart from a couple from Genia recently but still not the running threat he used to be.

I would say Frisby and Gordon have excellent running games - though probably more so as a support runner than a scooter.

Plenty of great teams have 9s that aren't massive running threats, they just need to make others around them threats - that's the CORE skill. Of course, a cheeky sniper from 9 is a bonus, but not required.

 

[wamberal]

Our best ever half-back was a wonderful sniper, but he had all the other skills as well.


I refer, of course, to the great Ken Catchpole.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'm not a fan of phipps but you can't really blame his pass here. Lack of good support play is probably the wallabies biggest general play issue right now, and that's as much a problem when phipps isn't on the field as when he is. Additionally it's always felt to me that phipps passing is at its worst when he has to wait and has time to think, he does his best work when he can keep his high tempo rhythm going.

I would have to disagree in one respect. There are no where near the number of poor passes, misdirected passes, passes to no-one from the No 9 when Genia is in the position. Lack of support play is a problem in the outside backs, but hardly ever does the half back, including Phipps, not have an option to pass to.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Do any of those guys have a great running game though? I swear sniping runs from Aussie 9's are a rarity these days - apart from a couple from Genia recently but still not the running threat he used to be.

Jake Gordon has been fantastic in the NRC with both his sniping runs and his backing up when a break is made. Lucas much the same, as is Lowrens at the Spirit.

 

[dru]

I would have to disagree in one respect. There are no where near the number of poor passes, misdirected passes, passes to no-one from the No 9 when Genia is in the position. Lack of support play is a problem in the outside backs, but hardly ever does the half back, including Phipps, not have an option to pass to.

Kind of. For each point of accuracy we get from Genia, we add a touch of slow and two side steps, which forces 10 deeper as a rush defence consumes. The problems build away from 9.

I'm not saying that Genia is not brilliant, or doesnt deserve the 9 jersey by a country mile.

But I'd like to test an in form Quade (he's not there yet). The conversation goes like this, "OK mate, you're outside Phipps. The ball will come fast and scatty. That's YOUR problem. Deal with it or ditch." And see what happens.

Of course you'd have to coach a two speed Phipps, one for the pigs (sorry Phipps, you'll have to be on target) and a pin ball to QC (Quade Cooper).

 

[amirite]

Kind of. For each point of accuracy we get from Genia, we add a touch of slow and two side steps, which forces 10 deeper as a rush defence consumes. The problems build away from 9.

I'm not saying that Genia is not brilliant, or doesnt deserve the 9 jersey by a country mile.

But I'd like to test an in form Quade (he's not there yet). The conversation goes like this, "OK mate, you're outside Phipps. The ball will come fast and scatty. That's YOUR problem. Deal with it or ditch." And see what happens.

Of course you'd have to coach a two speed Phipps, one for the pigs (sorry Phipps, you'll have to be on target) and a pin ball to QC (Quade Cooper).

We all speak about those 2 steps like it's a mistake in Genia's game, it's coached into him to interest the ruck defenses and create overlaps or gaps.

 

[BDA]

I would have to disagree in one respect. There are no where near the number of poor passes, misdirected passes, passes to no-one from the No 9 when Genia is in the position. Lack of support play is a problem in the outside backs, but hardly ever does the half back, including Phipps, not have an option to pass to.

That is one thing I actually noticed when Phipps came on against the Argies. the passing was all over the shop. It really does make a huge difference too. One thing the Kiwis are so good at; every pass is out in front of the man, on the button.

 

[dru]

We all speak about those 2 steps like it's a mistake in Genia's game, it's coached into him to interest the ruck defenses and create overlaps or gaps.

Note that I said for each point of accuracy = 2 steps. As the game wears this becomes, 4, 6. Sideways towards his support rather than passing. That's coached? What I see is occassional forward darts, that interest the ruck defences. But they ignore the sideways shuffle (they are coached too) and let the slow ball give the outside forwards the chance to hammer first receiver.

He's class earlier in the game. Later, maybe the pigs arent where they should be or something, but I doubt the crab is a desired coached tactic.

 

[Sully]

Seriously? I've been hearing this crap for years now. I could say 'our inside backs get hammered constantly because Phipps only worries about delivering quick ball and never fixes the defence with a step or two'. The steps don't matter. The steps are a positive not a negative!

 

[Joe Blow]

Yeah? We've just had Frisby play a couple of okay games in gold, we've had the young Stirzaker beg for a jersey last year (there's no reason he can't get back there next year sans injury), we gave a young Powell a crack in the squad earlier this year, and from the NRC we have Gordon and Lucas looking bloody good. I'd say 9 was our deepest position.

I'd say we're right, it's just about picking the right 1 or 2 to throw some development behind.

and Genia is only 27-28

 

[Brumby Runner]

Will really keeps the defense in two minds when he takes a couple of steps from the breakdown, especially down the blind side. Almost as often as he passes, he will run himself after holding the defense up. And when he passes, it is more often than not a reasonably flat pass to and in front of the next runner which in itself also challenges the defensive line.

I think there is a large element of urban myth surrounding his couple of steps. To me, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and it is clear that the Wallabies look to be a whole lot smarter attacking side with both Will and Quade in the playmaking positions.

 

[Brumby Runner]

For the record, this is what I'd go with for Bledisloe 3, knowing that Houston is not available.

1 Sio
2 Moore
3 Kepu
4 Arnold
5 Coleman
6 Fardy
7 Hooper
8 Timani

9 Genia
10 Cooper
11 Folau
12 Kerevi
13 Kuridrani
14 Naivalu
15 DHP

Reserves : Latu (more aggressive than Hanson); Ala'alatoa (LH side); Robertson (TH side); Douglas (scheduled to replace Arnold after 55 - 60); Mumm (I don't like it, but probably need to have a second lineout caller if Coleman goes down with injury); Phipps; Foley, Speight/Hodge.

I would prefer McMahon on the bench to cover 6 and 8, but that could leave us with no lineout caller.

 

[Brumby Jack]

Genia may not be available as this game is a dead rubber and falls outside the window where teams have to release selected palyers.

HEre's a bit from the OZ..

The All Blacks Test falls outside of the international window, which means Stade Francais are not obligated to release Genia for the match. There is no suggestion Stade Francais have recalled Genia, but the Wallabies are considering sending him back to Paris anyway to maintain good relations with the French club.

 

[dru]

@Sully, bit warm mate? Yes seriously.
@BR, I guess its not a "one size fits all" thing. When Genia darts to blind, body language going forward, support with him or hovering - this is a very good thing. Ditto wide looking for gaps or half gaps. But when his head is lokking sideways for his support and his steps are simply to get to pass distance, there is nothing that happens here except for slow ball. And it's not a good thing.

Genias direction around the park has justified his consistently hight scores on the G&GR ratings. He's been brilliant. That does not mean that Phipps doesnt also have strengths and some that Genia lacks.

 

[Train Without a Station]

The Genia sideways steps is a bit like the Quade drift.

People love to moan about it but ignore the fact these guys are genuine playmakers who scheme against defences.

Stepping/drifting just sets defenders up to follow opening up inside balls, or fixing them to have to defend Genia.

People who have just read half of Bob Dwyer's coaching manual or listened to Kafe analyse a few things something else like to pick it out and say "OH HE HAS TO STRAIGHTEN!!11!!1!!" but never consider that these things are coached for certain reasons. Such as not crowding outside runners, not cutting down receivers' time, etc.

In Genia's case, how often does the recipient look swamped? And Quade's case, how often to players outside of him get cramped and run out of space?

 

[Twoilms]

In Genia's case, how often does the recipient look swamped? And Quade's case, how often to players outside of him get cramped and run out of space?

Often

 

[Train Without a Station]

Yeah I was just thinking how much more cramped our backs have been looking outside Quade.

DHP and Kerevi seem to be continually running out of space...